What is the current state and future of film availability especially 35mm?

[JParker]

Instax is not film in the context of this thread at least..

Instant film is film. And instant film emulsions and film coating is done with the same equipment as non-instant films. And the distribution is also done via the same channels. Therefore it is of course relevant.

 

[GregY]

Thanks. I was shooting Ilford B&W with Ilford chemicals. How are they price wise compared to Tri X?

Gary, In large volume... (5 litre) Ilford Hypam fixer & Multigrade (Print) Developer are incredibly economical.
I process my films in Pyrocat HD. Check out Photographers Formulary https://stores.photoformulary.com/ suppliers of all kinds of photo chemistry. I process exhibition prints in Ansco 130 or Ethol LPD.
I know there are lots of folks who go the route of economy by using various cheaper films (& rebrands etc) Foma Arista, etc. I prefer to stick to my favorite. Kodak Tri-X and Tmax (100 & 400) & Ilford FP4+. I avoid dealing w supply issues and QC issues with other films.

 

[Paul Howell]

That is a very lame excuse. Because there are so many camera and camera repair shops which offer checked and / or repaired cameras even with a guarantee.
We don't have a lack of working film cameras in the market.

As I understand it the students bring their own cameras, the parents would buy a used cameras and it would stop working, or just the trouble of spending a day looking at cameras.

 

[Film-Niko]

As I understand it the students bring their own cameras, the parents would buy a used cameras and it would stop working, or just the trouble of spending a day looking at cameras.

So what. If the high-school would take their job seriously, they would just inform their students were to get reliable cameras. Problem solved.

 

[GaryFlorida]

If history has anything to say on this, Fuji is the most unreliable on any future predictions. They put out Acros at an outrageous price and cashing in on it. Not much change in management is needed to pull that plug though. In fact they've pulled films from market on very short notice, they've re-introduced some on similar short notice. I would not count on any film product Fuji makes long term, sadly.

The only players that, at least for now, are future proof in film production are Ilford and Adox (all other brands I'll leave to that audience). Kodak is likely to continue, so long as Tarantino and few others keep ordering film. Once Hollywood drops out of film use, anything can happen to any Kodak film.

What can save it all, and also improve supply and choice, is demand. I'm not sold current trend is future proof though. There is a major generational change coming in a decade. Those in their 40's need to start taking film seriously and show to those in their 30's, so those can shoot the word down to those in their 20's.

Look at the generation Z? I have no numbers, but I see nothing in film interest that would be sustaining demand needed to make film. Seems like drop in the ocean. Phones have so much to offer these days in photography, even digital cameras may have their coffins in sight, at least the consumer level ones.

It may not mean anything to gen z but when I hold negatives in my hand that by dad shot in 1958 and I realize that that strip of film was there in the room and physically witnessed any number of meaningful events and people, time that cannot and never will come back, moments forever gone are captured physically by the actual light that imprinted on the acetate film. It was there at the time as a physical witness. When i hold that artifact in my hand it is greater and ascends infinitely higher than any digitized and manipulatable image ever could. The genuine article has priceless value and tahts something that digital can NEVER do. a physical irrefutable record.

 

[MattKing]

So what. If the high-school would take their job seriously, they would just inform their students were to get reliable cameras. Problem solved.

Most school districts around here have budgetary rules that effectively prohibit buying used equipment or spending money on buying and servicing used equipment.
So most analog film courses are essentially happening because a teacher is organizing donations on their own time, and often out of their own pocket.
@Andrew O'Neill is just such a teacher. So is @PhotoBob .
I have a friend who is a long time camera repairer who out of the goodness of his heart is repairing 35mm cameras for another friend who is trying to teach such courses. The only model that seems to work for that teacher is to give those cameras to the students that profess interest, because there is no access to school funds to keep them serviced.

 

[GaryFlorida]

Gary, In large volume... (5 litre) Ilford Hypam fixer & Multigrade (Print) Developer are incredibly economical.
I process my films in Pyrocat HD. Check out Photographers Formulary https://stores.photoformulary.com/ suppliers of all kinds of photo chemistry. I process exhibition prints in Ansco 130 or Ethol LPD.
I know there are lots of folks who go the route of economy by using various cheaper films (& rebrands etc) Foma Arista, etc. I prefer to stick to my favorite. Kodak Tri-X and Tmax (100 & 400) & Ilford FP4+. I avoid dealing w supply issues and QC issues with other films.

Thank you very much Greg!!

 

[MattKing]

My moderator hat is mostly not on for this post - but my long term user hat definitely is!
Which Venice are you located at?
It really matters when you ask questions whose answers may vary with location.
If it is, as expected, Venice Florida, updating your Photrio location accordingly really helps.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

So what. If the high-school would take their job seriously, they would just inform their students were to get reliable cameras. Problem solved.

I take my job and the photo program that I teach, very seriously. It does help to have a principal that is supportive of art and my department (the one before sucked, and the program dwindled under previous teacher, sadly...Happily she left when I took over and the new guy came!) He always says to me, Andy, whatever you need! That even includes repairs on the K1000's (average about 6 each year). He even had the glass in our UV burner replaced after a twit caretaker smashed it and said nothing about it! Not an easy feat as it had to make allowances for a vacuum hose.
Ideally, you want the kids to have all the same cameras. If a class consists of many different types, it makes teaching difficult. When young teachers take over photo programs that have a healthy analogue component, you can probably kiss it goodbye (I'm the only one with a healthy program, sadly). That is why I am currently grooming a young teacher, who wants to keep it alive. I can imagine a teacher wanting to start a film/analogue course from scratch will find it daunting, and a battle with an unsupportive admin. In situations like that, the teacher...if determined...will do it on their own. How do you think I got the Alt. component off the ground? I started that bit when that witch of a principal was at the helm but managed to do it. I won in the end.
Rant over.
PS I have people donating cameras to us all the time. I am keeping the ones that still work, in storage, just in case...

 

[GaryFlorida]

My moderator hat is mostly not on for this post - but my long term user hat definitely is!
Which Venice are you located at?
It really matters when you ask questions whose answers may vary with location.
If it is, as expected, Venice Florida, updating your Photrio location accordingly really helps.

well my name is GaryFlorida so ...

 

[MattKing]

well my name is GaryFlorida so ...

As I said, expected.
But as someone who lives in a city right next to a City of Surrey that is not in the UK, it is always nice to pin down which country we are talking of.
And of course, there always is the "Florida of Europe": https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/sunny-faro-portugal-is-the-florida-of-europe-01666176507

 

[GaryFlorida]

As I said, expected.
But as someone who lives in a city right next to a City of Surrey that is not in the UK, it is always nice to pin down which country we are talking of.
And of course, there always is the "Florida of Europe": https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/sunny-faro-portugal-is-the-florida-of-europe-01666176507

Yes you are right, we cant assume too much on the world wide web. What a gorgeous place! much more so than Florida USA. I should move there. I wouldnt even have to change my screen name. Look at the color of that water! The photographic opportunities .... wow.

 

[Pieter12]

It may not mean anything to gen z but when I hold negatives in my hand that by dad shot in 1958 and I realize that that strip of film was there in the room and physically witnessed any number of meaningful events and people, time that cannot and never will come back, moments forever gone are captured physically by the actual light that imprinted on the acetate film. It was there at the time as a physical witness. When i hold that artifact in my hand it is greater and ascends infinitely higher than any digitized and manipulatable image ever could. The genuine article has priceless value and tahts something that digital can NEVER do. a physical irrefutable record.

Digital files are easily printed to archival standards, something most old photos (usually just snapshots sent to the corner drugstore) are not.

 

[Pieter12]

That is a very lame excuse. Because there are so many camera and camera repair shops which offer checked and / or repaired cameras even with a guarantee.
We don't have a lack of working film cameras in the market.

Depends where you are located. Even in a major metropolitan market there may only be a couple of camera stores, many with no second-hand equipment or repair facilities.

 

[Paul Howell]

So what. If the high-school would take their job seriously, they would just inform their students were to get reliable cameras. Problem solved.

Really, math, reading civis, history science, but if a school does make a means for students to obtain reliable cameras that 20 years to 50 years old they are not taking their job seriously. Like photogphry is on the SAT?

 

[pentaxuser]

well my name is GaryFlorida so ...

That makes the correct locatíon of Venice more of a problem, doesn't it?

If you had been Gary from Florida with a location of Venice then it's almost 100% certain where you are but if your full actual name includes Florida then Gary might be short for Gerald and it might be really Geraldo Florida( pronounced Floreeda) from Venice, Italy

It's bit like the puzzle of "Who's" on first base that drove Lou Costello to an early grave

pentaxuser

 

[Hassasin]

Instant film is film. And instant film emulsions and film coating is done with the same equipment as non-instant films. And the distribution is also done via the same channels. Therefore it is of course relevant.

Instant film is not going to make roll film sustainable. Totally different crowd buys this stuff.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Paul - high school class reunions are interesting. I went to my 10 year reunion, but never another. The class dunce who blew up the basement level of the chemistry classroom had his own engineering company. So did another goof-off. The top SAT guy was a deadbeat hippie. The main math whiz went to CalTech, got into HP relatively early, made a mountain of money, then went to prison for 6 years for defrauding the IRS, and finally ended up as the most informed minimum wage security guard anywhere - at the Tech Museum in San Jose. Two of the useless school darkroom goofs ended up in prestigious NYC ad agencies. Everything ended up backwards, it seems.

Sometimes a fling with creativity has a much better outcome than strict readin', writin', and 'rithmatic. The kid who swept floors for us took a short course in digital imaging, and I convinced him to take a darkroom course too, along with learning some drawing skills. Digital imaging geeks are dime a dozen around here.
But present a portfolio which demonstrates versatility - well, the next job that twenty-something kid had paid him over 200K per year. ... and he's actually got one of my own prints on his walls.

 

[GaryFlorida]

That makes the correct locatíon of Venice more of a problem, doesn't it?

If you had been Gary from Florida with a location of Venice then it's almost 100% certain where you are but if your full actual name includes Florida then Gary might be short for Gerald and it might be really Geraldo Florida( pronounced Floreeda) from Venice, Italy

It's bit like the puzzle of "Who's" on first base that drove Lou Costello to an early grave

pentaxuser

well you have a point there. I suppose Florida is a last name although Ive never heard of it before. And I did say My name is.. I should have said My screen name is but I digress. but to put things in perspective, if you had to bet your favorite camera, would you have bet Im from Venice Florida? or somewhere else? asking for a friend.

 

[cmacd123]

well you have a point there. I suppose Florida is a last name although Ive never heard of it before.

many of Canada's Space Satellites were tested in the "David Florida" laboratory", in Nepean Ontario.

 

[MattKing]

I'm going to be well behaved, and resist the temptation to use my moderator super powers and switch the OP's avatar with this:

 

[Paul Howell]

Paul - high school class reunions are interesting. I went to my 10 year reunion, but never another. The class dunce who blew up the basement level of the chemistry classroom had his own engineering company. So did another goof-off. The top SAT guy was a deadbeat hippie. The main math whiz went to CalTech, got into HP relatively early, made a mountain of money, then went to prison for 6 years for defrauding the IRS, and finally ended up as the most informed minimum wage security guard anywhere - at the Tech Museum in San Jose. Two of the useless school darkroom goofs ended up in prestigious NYC ad agencies. Everything ended up backwards, it seems.

Sometimes a fling with creativity has a much better outcome than strict readin', writin', and 'rithmatic. The kid who swept floors for us took a short course in digital imaging, and I convinced him to take a darkroom course too, along with learning some drawing skills. Digital imaging geeks are dime a dozen around here.
But present a portfolio which demonstrates versatility - well, the next job that twenty-something kid had paid him over 200K per year. ... and he's actually got one of my own prints on his walls.

Unfortunately Arizona is about dead last in K to 12 funding, music, art, are at the bottom of the list. It's not just analog photography that is taking a hit. We all have stories about the bright kid who makes a mess of his/her life and about the Maynard G Krebs (remember Dobbie Gillis) of high school who made it big. But in general, kids who do well in high school, go on to post secondary education do better than those who don't. I cannot blame the schools that cannot afford to teach analogy photography, at this point just hiring enough math teachers is a struggle.

 

[GregY]

I'm going to be well behaved, and resist the temptation to use my moderator super powers and switch the OP's avatar with this:
View attachment 379315

Matt I'm sure most people could figure out GaryFl is not from Italy...... what avatar might you use for Hassasstan ?

 

[Kodachromeguy]

The fate of Fuji Arcos is uncertain, the last batch was made by Harman, and Fuji Color was repackaged Kodacolor Gold.

Where did you read about Acros II issues? All major suppliers in USA have it. Glazers Camera in Seattle had an impressive amount in their freezer.

 

[koraks]

Instant film is not going to make roll film sustainable. Totally different crowd buys this stuff.

Economies of scale in the manufacturing process can play a role though. That's unrelated to market segments. For Fuji it's attractive to keep their film manufacturing lines alive just for Instax, which means that some paper and roll film can sometimes piggy-back on that capacity. The higher the usage rate of a line like that, the longer it'll take before it's finally shut down.