What the heck happened to the price of Ilford Multigrade FB Paper??

[Paul Howell]

I could use a cheaper paper for work prints, but I'd have to spend time figuring out how to map a print made on one paper to the other. At one point I made work prints on the less expensive 8x10 MG Fiber paper and then made the final print on 11x14, but I found it easier to simply make tests on small bits of the 11x14 paper before committing to a full 11x14 print. I don't really know which way has the best trade off of nuisance vs economy.

I will make a set of work prints and let them sit around a bit, sometimes as long as a year, I take them out and look at them, think about the crop, the final contrast G2 or 3 Vs VC paper bleach or no bleach, before I decide which ones I want to print. And you are right, when committed to a final print I need to remap the print, make sure to let the test strips dry down. For me it is just looking at the print and visualizing what he could be. takes me a while to decide. I guess as my training has been in PJ and news I never that the luxury of thinking about it.

 

[AZD]

Between my return to printing in 2019 and now everything has doubled or more. My first 5x7 box of Foma 111 was under $40, now it’s a shade under $80. I took a chance on a very old but cheap box of Brovira (could probably lith if it was conventionally useless) and it prints beautifully. But expensive or not, I’ll want and need new papers eventually.

 

[Peter Schrager]

This whole price rise is getting pretty ridiculous
Thats why for the last 4 years ive become an emulsion maker;i.e. printing out paper
Silver nitrate is the most expensive component and i make about 700ml (cost $20)
Of emulsion which is enough to coat about 30 sheets of 8x10 paper.
I would certainly prefer to get it at the store but that Isn't happening. Kentmere was the last ones to produce it and ilford killed 8t when they bought them.
Anyone here who might be interested im available to travel for workshops and individual instruction here in Connecticut or at the Vcphoto.org upon request
Make your own paper..take control of your medium!!

 

[Augustus Caesar]

Silver has gone up.

 

[Vaughn]

Having 'lost' several nice silver gelatin papers, control of my printing process and having access to needed materials were some of the reasons I explored carbon printing and then pt/pd. The paper itself will always be a variable, unfortunately. Not likely to make my own paper.

 

[Maris]

The price of the best multigrade gelatin-silver photographic papers has always been hurtful to me so about 30 years ago I made a brutal and liberating decision.

The only paper size I would buy and use was 8"X10". Rectangular pictures would go out at 16.3cm X 21.5cm ( or the other way round if they were portrait orientation).
Square pictures would go out at 16.3cm X16.3cm. Contact prints off 8x10 would be 19.3cm X 24.7cm (ok, 24.7cm X 19.3 cm for portrait).

I was encouraged in this approach by Edward Weston's exemplary lifetime photographic career in which he never made a projection enlargement and never a print bigger than 8x10.
A contemporary hero of mine is Michael Kenna who has achieved long term success with primary prints mainly 8"X 8" or smaller.

Apart from dollar savings by selecting the "small" 8x10 paper size my print storage challenge is manageable. I hate to think, 30 000 prints in and counting, how I'd stack them all if they were 16X20s.

 

[GregY]

It's not just Ilford Multigrade, but Foma FB paper is also about $200 USD/100 sheets of 8x10...checking Freestyle's current prices.

 

[AZD]

No doubt the raw materials have increased, as everything else I need is inflated, too. But I wonder how much does demand for darkroom paper play into this?

I think there might actually be an increased interest in printing. That would seem a natural extension of more film users, and perhaps a reaction to digital and especially AI imagery. It seems like Ilford and Foma can still sell all the RC paper they make, and probably all the fiber paper, too.

I’d like to think there are still teens and 20-somethings in bedrooms with blankets over the door and window making prints on a cheap enlarger. It’s unfortunate they won’t buy some “student-grade Eastern European paper” because Forte Polywarmtone was cheaper than Kodak’s offerings, or spend way too long looking at the manufacturers’ extensive paper sample booklets before getting the same old Polycontrast, or occasionally paying the premium for a pack of the best 11x14 (it hurt even then).

Hopefully the magic of making a print at home is alive and well, and priced so it’s still accessible. Recently I’ve gotten so far behind on my printing I considered scanning and electronic printing, but… I can’t. It’s just not the same, nor will it ever be.

 

[AZD]

The price of the best multigrade gelatin-silver photographic papers has always been hurtful to me so about 30 years ago I made a brutal and liberating decision.

The only paper size I would buy and use was 8"X10". Rectangular pictures would go out at 16.3cm X 21.5cm ( or the other way round if they were portrait orientation).
Square pictures would go out at 16.3cm X16.3cm. Contact prints off 8x10 would be 19.3cm X 24.7cm (ok, 24.7cm X 19.3 cm for portrait).

I think there is a lot of sense in this, or some similar approach. I once had the lofty goal that I would go back and reprint EVERYTHING on the same paper and size. All while working 40-50 hour weeks and taking care of family matters… yeah, not happening. My concession: It’ll be the same hodgepodge of whatever I was doing at the time, whether 3.5” x 5”, 2” x 3” (lots of Polywarmtone became micro-sized, unfortunately), a few of every other larger size. The best of the best might get an occasional 11” x 14”. In other words, exactly what I’ve always done, but not worrying about it.

 

[Vaughn]

But 16x20s from 4x5 negs were sooo much fun to print! Burning and dodging were like conducting an orchestra. That big image appearing thru the developer. Loved it. Lived cheap to afford it for quite awhile and only printed in the winter.

But I am now loving limiting my print size by the size of my cameras. And I'm wasting time when I need to attend to some photo stuff! Enough!

 

[Chuck_P]

I purchased a box of 50 11"x14" (glossy) sheets in January from B&H for $145.95. I just checked the price and the same box is $183.99!

Wow, I paid the lower price for two boxes less than a month ago. I was glad to see that the 250 sheet box of 8x10, though expensive enough, is still the same price.

 

[pentaxuser]

Silver has gone up.

So when silver comes down Ilford paper prices will fall?

pentaxuser

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Silver has gone up.

Quite a bit. Bough a Wiener Philharmoniker at the end of January for €37, now the same coin is €43 at the same supplier. A year ago I bought the same coin for €28

 

[logan2z]

So when silver comes down Ilford paper prices will fall?

What do you think?

 

[GregY]

I'd bet dollars to donuts, the price increases have little to do with the cost of raw materials....

 

[DREW WILEY]

The cost of silver is just one factor. All lot of things go into making printing paper, including labor, facilities overhead, and distribution cost too. Given the current unpredictability of things, I can't say anything optimistic, unless dealers are simply going to use a particularly popular item as a "loss leader", and sell it at or below their own price. But that raises the hackles of other dealers and might get them in trouble with Ilford too.

But will there be a tipping point, a doomsday scenario, when large film and paper just becomes so unaffordable to most that the diminishing levels of sales can no longer support the industry itself? That's what worries me, with all the uncertainty these days over reckless arbitrary tariffs and so forth; sometimes that can be the straw which breaks the camel's back.

Back in the 70's or so there was the attempt of just two people, namely the Hunt brothers, to totally monopolize the silver commodity market, which temporarily drove many photographers away from printing completely. The paper just got too expensive. These cycles come and go; but there are less manufacturers now of what we need, and it would be dire to see any of them fail.

It's getting even worse with building materials. Everyone demands cheaper housing; but everything at play tells us that is simply not going to be the case. We have our own "sheet goods" inflation issues : matboard, acrylic glazing etc. The price hike of that is jus as bad as printing paper. Am I going to end up contact printing, when I can no longer afford enlarging. I hope not, although contact prints can be beautiful in their own right.

 

[GregY]

The cost of silver is just one factor. All lot of things go into making printing paper, including labor, facilities overhead, and distribution cost too. Given the current unpredictability of things, I can't say anything optimistic, unless dealers are simply going to use a particularly popular item as a "loss leader", and sell it at or below their own price. But that raises the hackles of other dealers and might get them in trouble with Ilford too.

But will there be a tipping point, a doomsday scenario, when large film and paper just becomes so unaffordable to most that the diminishing levels of sales can no longer support the industry itself? That's what worries me, with all the uncertainty these days over reckless arbitrary tariffs and so forth; sometimes that can be the straw which breaks the camel's back.

Back in the 70's or so there was the attempt of just two people, namely the Hunt brothers, to totally monopolize the silver commodity market, which temporarily drove many photographers away from printing completely. The paper just got too expensive. These cycles come and go; but there are less manufacturers now of what we need, and it would be dire to see any of them fail.

It's getting even worse with building materials. Everyone demands cheaper housing; but everything at play tells us that is simply not going to be the case. We have our own "sheet goods" inflation issues : matboard, acrylic glazing etc. The price hike of that is jus as bad as printing paper. Am I going to end up contact printing, when I can no longer afford enlarging. I hope not, although contact prints can be beautiful in their own right.

Seems so Drew..... $40 Cdn/$27 USD a sheet here for 32 x40 matt board...$13 for a sheet of 16x20 Ilford Warmtone....sure drives print prices up

 

[pentaxuser]

What do you think?

Well I know what 20 years usage of paper has told me which was why I was interested in a reply from Augustus Caesar as his very short and unqualified answer suggests that a rise in the price of silver explains the rise completely

pentaxuser

 

[snusmumriken]

I purchased a box of 50 11"x14" (glossy) sheets in January from B&H for $145.95. I just checked the price and the same box is $183.99! That's a shockingly big increase in such a short period of time. I don't know what could account for such an increase but these prices are not sustainable, IMHO. I like the paper and would love to continue supporting Ilford, but at nearly $4/sheet I'm going to have to look for an alternative.

In the UK, that box would be £143.37 direct from Ilford (plus shipping), so $185.53 at today’s exchange rates.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Greg - certain raw materials tend to get channeled into their respective commodities markets, which are easily gamed to gain certain people an advantage. But there are also energy and transportation and distribution issues at every level. It's not just museum board trying to find enough linen, but the paper pulp chain which now sees its own significant price rise, not only in photographic paper, but even book paper. I've had friends who had to stop publishing their history books, for example, due to the price of appropriate book paper nearly doubling the past few years. That's materials cost, and not like some professor demanding students use his own textbook, which cost six bucks to print, but has a selling price at the student bookstore of $85 - that's gaming instead.

 

[GregY]

Greg - certain raw materials tend to get channeled into their respective commodities markets, which are easily gamed to gain certain people an advantage. But there are also energy and transportation and distribution issues at every level. It's not just museum board trying to find enough linen, but the paper pulp chain which now sees its own significant price rise, not only in photographic paper, but even book paper. I've had friends who had to stop publishing their history books, for example, due to the price of appropriate book paper nearly doubling the past few years. That's materials cost, and not like some professor demanding students use his own textbook, which cost six bucks to print, but has a selling price at the student bookstore of $85 - that's gaming instead.

Drew it crossed my mind that matt board/ enlarging paper prices have a greater impact on the user than film for example. I buy matt board and 16x20 & 20x24" paper buy the box..... So when box of paper tops $757 USD/$1095 CAD/691€. & a box of 10 or 12 matt boards approahces $500........ (plus shipping)... it makes a shockingly big dent in the wallet. And as the OP pointed out.... a 25% increase in the span of only a couple of months makes one consider alternatives.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I still have a few full 25-packs of full 32X48 inch 4-ply Rising museum board, some of which I'll cut down for sake of 20X24 inch prints. I bought all of that back when I had a wholesale account with a big picture framing distributor, about a hundred sheets at a time, which came out about 4 dollars a full sheet back then! I still have a quantity of Alphamat too.

For convenience I buy multiple 15-packs of 22X28 of what is apparently also Rising 4-py, from Archival Methods, enough at the time to give me a decent quantity rate and free shipping, around $700 to $1000 at a time. But for the quantity I get, the price is astronomical per sheet compared to former decades. I cut it down to 22X26, or will simply have them do that themselves next time. I have about half of last year's order left on hand for my next drymounting marathon late in this year. I'm not complaining; I appreciate their quality and service. Poor matboard is really headache, and they sell the good stuff, and it comes properly squared. But reality is what it is, and one can only coast so far on a finite budget.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

The pricing ain't rocket science. I'd bet it is mostly due to the falloff in demand. I think we are already in a vicious cycle. Lower demand leads to higher prices which leads to lower demand still.

 

[Milpool]

I still have a few full 25-packs of full 32X48 inch 4-ply Rising museum board, some of which I'll cut down for sake of 20X24 inch prints. I bought all of that back when I had a wholesale account with a big picture framing distributor, about a hundred sheets at a time, which came out about 4 dollars a full sheet back then! I still have a quantity of Alphamat too.

For convenience I buy multiple 15-packs of 22X28 of what is apparently also Rising 4-py, from Archival Methods, enough at the time to give me a decent quantity rate and free shipping, around $700 to $1000 at a time. But for the quantity I get, the price is astronomical per sheet compared to former decades. I cut it down to 22X26, or will simply have them do that themselves next time. I have about half of last year's order left on hand for my next drymounting marathon late in this year. I'm not complaining; I appreciate their quality and service. Poor matboard is really headache, and they sell the good stuff, and it comes properly squared. But reality is what it is, and one can only coast so far on a finite budget.

Whatever happened to Light Impressions? I guess that’s long gone?

 

[GregY]

Wow, I paid the lower price for two boxes less than a month ago. I was glad to see that the 250 sheet box of 8x10, though expensive enough, is still the same price.

In the FB Classic MG and Warmtone MG the 250 boxes are out of stock at B&H....which means if you order...you have to pay the shipping....which pumps the price up.