What's needed to make this 4x5 Graflex RB complete?

[campy51]

What kind of back is needed to make this usable? Can it be converted to Grafloc back without jumping through hoops?

 

[campy51]

I think I found my answer. It appears I just need a film holder made for this model. Forgot about it being an slr and no need for ground glass focusing.

 

[Donald Qualls]

What you have there is a Graflex back; standard film holders are for the Graphic back (aka spring back) and won't fit that one. Wood film holders can be converted if you have wood shop tools, or you can usually find a few Graflex back compatible film holders, bag mags, even sometimes a Grafmatic on eBay.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I bought one of those Graflexs from a retired Graflex and Graphic repair man who converted it for me to take a Graflox back as part of the purchase.

 

[Kino]

Take it from me, compatible double-sided film holders are not easy to find now days, but bag mags with up to 12 shots are fairly cheap.

@Graflex Garage (a user here) rebuilds them for a very reasonable price; replacing the leather and light seals.

I have been advertising and searching for double-sided Graflex film holders for over 6 months; no luck.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I have been advertising and searching for double-sided Graflex film holders for over 6 months; no luck.

Based on what I've seen from Ari Jaaksi (YouTube channel "Shoot on Film") all that's needed to convert a wood Graphic film holder to Graflex is to make a compatible groove where the registration rib is, and cut grooves in both long edges to accept the Graflex lock slide. This is probably also possible with plastic Graphic type 4x5 holders, but I haven't seen it done so I can't say for sure.

 

[Kino]

Based on what I've seen from Ari Jaaksi (YouTube channel "Shoot on Film") all that's needed to convert a wood Graphic film holder to Graflex is to make a compatible groove where the registration rib is, and cut grooves in both long edges to accept the Graflex lock slide. This is probably also possible with plastic Graphic type 4x5 holders, but I haven't seen it done so I can't say for sure.

Thanks Donald, I was wondering if that was the case myself. Tried tracking down a video of his that addresses this modification, but was unsuccessful. Maybe it is mentioned in one of his many long videos on Graflex cameras.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Thanks Donald, I was wondering if that was the case myself. Tried tracking down a video of his that addresses this modification, but was unsuccessful. Maybe it is mentioned in one of his many long videos on Graflex cameras.

Look for the video where it details repairs to his RB Series D. Pretty sure that's where he talks about converting the film holders. It may also be in the Series B videos, try about 4:45 in this one:

 

[nosmok]

in a similar vein, I converted an RH-8 roll holder to work on 6x9 RB Graflex, a long time ago. It involves cutting a groove where there may be a ridge. Easiest to do with a milling machine. I went a little deep and got into the dark slide channel, but I just put a piece of tape in there and used it for years-- somehow the dark slide never hit the tape, and the tape seal was 'good enough'.

 

[reddesert]

If you look around long enough, you may also find a film pack adapter for Graflex-not-Graphic back that can be modified to be useful for something. I think some people turn those into plate holders for wet or dry plates, too.

A problem with looking for these holders is that most people don't understand the difference between the types of backs, and thus they are unlikely to be listed accurately.

 

[Kino]

in a similar vein, I converted an RH-8 roll holder to work on 6x9 RB Graflex, a long time ago. It involves cutting a groove where there may be a ridge. Easiest to do with a milling machine. I went a little deep and got into the dark slide channel, but I just put a piece of tape in there and used it for years-- somehow the dark slide never hit the tape, and the tape seal was 'good enough'.

Thanks! Good to know.

If you look around long enough, you may also find a film pack adapter for Graflex-not-Graphic back that can be modified to be useful for something. I think some people turn those into plate holders for wet or dry plates, too.

I have a film pack adapter that came with the camera. I had not thought of the dry plate angle and was thinking it would be a curiosity or makeshift GG holder; thanks!

Yeah, that's why I spent an hour or two, plowing through listings on Ebay, looking at the photos carefully. None of the listed Graflex/Graphic film holders were slotted...

Bummer...

PS. Here's a photo of the photographer who owned the camera before me. Guess he shot a lot of sports. Too bad the telephoto lens wasn't present with the camera, but the normal lens is in great shape...

 

[Hunter_Compton]

Yeah, that's why I spent an hour or two, plowing through listings on Ebay, looking at the photos carefully. None of the listed Graflex/Graphic film holders were slotted...

Bummer...

There’s several Graflex back cut film magazines “bag mags” available. They will most likely need new leather bags made and fitted, but the advantage there is you have 12 sheets in the same size and weight as two double sided holders.

I have five of them for my 3x4 Graflex, they’re quite nice

 

[Kino]

There’s several Graflex back cut film magazines “bag mags” available. They will most likely need new leather bags made and fitted, but the advantage there is you have 12 sheets in the same size and weight as two double sided holders.

I have five of them for my 3x4 Graflex, they’re quite nice

Just had one of those rebuilt by Graflex Garage but have not had the opportunity to shoot with it.

I need to play with it a bit more; it kinda freaks me out a bit. Seems abnormal to operate!

 

[Don_ih]

I have a few 4x5 graflex holders and a few bag mags for my RBGraflex. I can check how the holders compare to normal plastic holder. I don't think the plastic would withstand having a groove cut.

@Kino gives good advice about the bag mags. Even though mine work, the leather is degraded and covers the film with flecks of crap. Good idea to replace it. Those things are pretty fool-proof, if not all rusted up.

 

[Donald Qualls]

There actually was a 4x5 Grafmatic model for the Graflex back, as well as the more common one that fits a Graphic (under the spring panel) or Graflok. I want to say it's the 1124 vs. the Graphic/Graflok 1125, but I could have that wrong (and I'm not at home where I can look at my Graflok 4x5 Grafmatics). It's only six sheets instead of twelve, but IMO faster and easier to operate (might be easier to load, too; I haven't ever handled a bag mag). The septums in both 4x5 models are the same, AFAIK, so replacements shouldn't be a major issue, and I've had good results so far with straightening slightly bent septums.

 

[rknewcomb]

Hi,
The format back of that camera does not look quite right in the picture for a 4x5, are you sure its 4x5 and not 3 1/4 x 4 1/4?

 

[Donald Qualls]

Hi,
The format back of that camera does not look quite right in the picture for a 4x5, are you sure its 4x5 and not 3 1/4 x 4 1/4?

On looking back at the first picture, I agree -- Series C instead of D?

 

[campy51]

I thought about buying it for $150 and stripping it down to bare wood, but I have never done a project like that before. Will I be in over my head?

 

[Craig]

all that's needed to convert a wood Graphic film holder to Graflex is to make a compatible groove where the registration rib is, and cut grooves in both long edges to accept the Graflex lock slide.

I measured once and the distance from the mounting face of the film holder to the film plane is different. I can't remember if the standard holder is taller or shorter, but I deemed it not feasible to convert one to the other, and I have a full woodworking shop to make anything.

With the SLR focusing system, the back flange to film distance needs to be correct.

 

[Donald Qualls]

With the SLR focusing system, the back flange to film distance needs to be correct.

Or, if you don't expect to ever find the correct film holders, you can adjust the position of the reflex mirror or viewing ground glass to match the film plane. Probably better to shim or thin the film holder frame as needed, though. If the Graflex holders are thicker in that dimension (as they might well be), a suitable shim glued to the contact surface of a Graphic type accessory should fix you up.

Ari Jaaksi gets good results, so he must have either adjusted his camera(s) or adjusted his film holders as needed...

 

[campy51]

On looking back at the first picture, I agree -- Series C instead of D?

I called and they measured. I guess it's 2x3

 

[Donald Qualls]

Ah, Series B, then. Definitely convert to Graflok if possible -- that would let you use RB67 and Graflex roll backs as well as 2x3 Grafmatics and standard film holders.

 

[Craig]

I was curious about the differences in 4x5 holders between a standard film holder and a Graflex. The standard holder distance from the face that goes against the camera to the film is 0.200". A Graflex holder is 0.230". So material would need to be added to the face of a standard holder to bring the film to the proper distance away from the mounting face.

The Graflex holder is also 1/4" wider than a standard holder, no doubt to accommodate the side slots.

 

[djdister]

I called and they measured. I guess it's 2x3

Your camera is a Graflex RB Jr, which shoots 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 images. Rather than looking for that size sheet film (and hard to find holders), your best option is to look for a Graflex 120 roll film back to fit it - than you can shoot 120 film until the cows come home.

Here's what an RB Jr. looks like with the 120 back...

 

[campy51]

How hard is it to take the leather off and finish the wood?