Which Medium Format Camera Meets My Needs?

[runswithsizzers]

The school semester is coming to an end, and today I am returning the Mamiya C220 TLR back to the university Photo department. Two (of many) things I learned this past semester are:
a. I like those big 6x6cm negatives, and,
b. I don't like TLR cameras.

After reading some ongoing threads here on Photrio about buying medium format cameras, I think a medium format folder would best suit my needs, which are:

- moderate cost: under $400 would be great, but I might go a little more for an ideal camera in good working condition
- format can be either 6x4.5 or 6x6 cm
- I hope to avoid the use of red widows when advancing the film
- I would prefer a coupled rangefinder - the bigger and brighter the view, the better
- would really like a top shutter speed of 1/500th sec, or at least 1/400th
- smaller and lighter are better than big and heavy

So far, the models at the top of my list are:
- Konica PEARL III (I really want the Pearl IV, but I doubt I can find one I can afford)
- Fujica SUPER FUJICA-6
- Zeiss Super Ikonta III -- maybe? -- still investigating this model...

Are there any other folding 120 format cameras similar to these which I should look for?
Does anyone know of any "fatal flaws" among these models that I should be aware of?

Thank you.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I am suggesting that for $400US you could buy a Hasselblad body now and in a short time buy a lens for that body. It just takes a little longer between buying lenses with Hasselblad, but you will not need to buy another MF body again.

 

[Paul Howell]

All folding camera can have issues with proper film to flange distance as the lens prone to wobble, just the nature of the beast of a folder. Mamiya 6 auto, 75mm lens, well made, but has the red window when advancing the film. For a really big negative, inexpensive, but not rangefinder, and you need to respool 120 to 620 the Kodak Tournister, later model with top shutter if 1/400 or 1/800, the 4 element lens, all aluminum body. I use mine for landscapes in which I am shooting at infinity.

 

[Sanug]

Seagull 203. Cheap, solid, big good coupled viewfinder. But red window, and the lens is a triplet.

 

[benveniste]

It may take a bit of hunting, but you should be able to find a Pentax 645 with insert and lens for about $500.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

For your requirements, I would suggest Bronica ETRS. With $400 dlls you should be able to get a full kit (viewfinder, body, normal lens and film back).

If you prefer 6x6, would suggest Bronica SQ-A or bronica s2a.


By the way, I currently own and use ETRS when I need a light kit. Really good lenses (have 40mm,50mm,75mm and 150mm). Usually take the 40/75/150m when traveling. Great and reliable camera.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

Also take a look at a recent post on Petapixel:

The Best Budget Medium Format Cameras in 2024

Edit: Ignore the TLR sections

 

[Dan Daniel]

OP, have you used a folder? They have real advantages, but also real drawbacks (as with every camera). The biggest issue can be the squinty viewfinder. You may not like a TLR, but you'll find the strength of the ground glass focus screen for 6x6 after looking through any of those viewfinders.

If the TLR is a definite no, be sure to try a medium format SLR first. Or just accept adding a prism right away. I've used a Bronica ETRsi with plain prism and speed grip and it was similar to using a 35mm SLR.

Maybe say more about how you see using this camera, and what attracts you to a folder. I have a Super Fujica-6 as a knapsack carry everywhere camera, and I really like it. But I tend to not spend much time using a viewfinder for framing shots, doing framing by experience and using the camera for final confirmation. I see this camera as sketch pad, snapshot camera, but it could certainly be used as a serious camera; nice lens, focus is accurate enough for a folder. But I wouldn't use it for, say, street shooting or static portraits. Horses for courses.

And plan on having more than one medium format camera type eventually.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

A little hesitant to recommend Mamiya Press, since you said you like a coupled rangefinder (which it has) but also like light camera (which it is not by any stretch of imagination). Have great glass and has backs from 6x4.5 all the way to 6x9. I love mine but definitely not a, umm, quick shooter or light camera. It is on the cheap side though.

 

[GregY]

It may take a bit of hunting, but you should be able to find a Pentax 645 with insert and lens for about $500.

I have one but on the downside, it's neither light nor unwieldy, but the lenses are superb.
If i had to make a choice....i'd take my Rolleiflex TLR (which has been around the world)....limitations notwithstanding....TLRs are pretty fine cameras once you get accustomed to them.

 

[runswithsizzers]

OP, have you used a folder? They have real advantages, but also real drawbacks (as with every camera). The biggest issue can be the squinty viewfinder. You may not like a TLR, but you'll find the strength of the ground glass focus screen for 6x6 after looking through any of those viewfinders.

No, I've never owned a folder. But I suspect using one will probably involve some significant compromises. Among the several 35mm SLRs I've owned, the one I like the best is the one with the biggest, brightest viewfinder (Pentax MX). So a tiny squinty viewfinder sounds terrible to me. It may be something I can live with, or maybe not.

If the TLR is a definite no, be sure to try a medium format SLR first. Or just accept adding a prism right away. I've used a Bronica ETRsi with plain prism and speed grip and it was similar to using a 35mm SLR.

A few years back (2019), I did research medium format SLRs for a while, and the Bronica ETRSi was one of my top picks, along with some Mamiya and Pentax 645 models. The main reason I never bought one was, with an eye-level prism (manditory for me), the total weights were as much, or more than the detested Mamiya TLR.

Maybe say more about how you see using this camera, and what attracts you to a folder. I have a Super Fujica-6 as a knapsack carry everywhere camera, and I really like it. But I tend to not spend much time using a viewfinder for framing shots, doing framing by experience and using the camera for final confirmation. I see this camera as sketch pad, snapshot camera, but it could certainly be used as a serious camera; nice lens, focus is accurate enough for a folder. But I wouldn't use it for, say, street shooting or static portraits. Horses for courses.

When shooting b&w, I tend to walk about and look for photographs in small towns, some urban areas, public parks and gardens, and some nature trails. I don't really know what "street" means, but I don't think that is what I do. Very few people, no portraits. Here is a link to much of the b&w I've shot in the past few years: https://garywright.smugmug.com/Photography (there is a little color/digital on that page which you can ignore).

Back in 2019 I imagined the medium format camera would replace my 35mm for this kind of walkabout. But now, my plan is to return to my lovely little 35mm SLRs, but maybe have a medium format camera handy for a few selected shots. Therefore, it must be small and light because it will be part of a two camera kit.

And plan on having more than one medium format camera type eventually.

The more I think about it, I am beginning to think there may not be even one.

 

[abruzzi]

I'm much more of a fan of SLRs vs folders/rangefinders, but since folder are what you asked about, I'll tell you my experience with a Pearl III. First off, its about the smalles MF camera you can find. Its even smaller than a lot of 35mm folders--an real achievement! As Daniel said, like a lot of folders the viewfinder is small, and has no bright-lines. So the image is basically everythign you can see.

I hate red windows, so the Pearl III has a clockwork film advance. Its a little funky how it works, but one you get used to it, it actually works quite well. I had pretty consistent spacing, and never had overlapping frames. You basically push the release counter clockwise, then turn the advance clockwise until it stopped.

As you're probably aware, there are NO interlocks. Some people see issues with that, but it was never an issue to me. I just always remembers to leave the camera in the same state--film advanced, but shutter uncocked. There are a number of sub models of Pearl III, and I have the one with the EV scale. Like on the Kodak Retina, the shutter speed locks to the aperture, so once you take your reading and dial it into the settings, you could turn both rings at the same time maintaining the same exposure. Some hate that, I love it.

Now the bad news--my Pearl's bellows was light tight when I bought it, but in bad shape already. It was good for anther couple of years, before it was beyond patching. I've looked for someone to build and install a replacement bellows, but have been unsuccessful. I really love the camera, so I'd be willing to pay a largish cost to re-bellows it, but nobody seems to want to do it. So if you get a Pearl III, bellows condition should be a very high priority.

 

[MattKing]

If you can live with scale focusing, the 6x6 Voigtlander "Bessa Deluxe" is relatively tiny, and perfectly suited for left-handed photographers.
It only relies on a red window for setting the first frame - after that there is a frame countrer, but it is extremely demanding in its requirements of you in order to make the frame counter and interlocks work properly.
You must follow instructions exactly!
I've often thought the designer must have been military trained!
Here is an explanatory link: http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Bessa_66
And an example of what you can achieve with it:

Picnic

• MattKing
• Jun 30, 2015
• 5

For the Geometry MSA - a detail of a park picnic table, and the shadows it creates in the sun.

 

[henryvk]

- Zeiss Super Ikonta III -- maybe? -- still investigating this model...

I have the Super Ikonta III (Tesar) and it's a pretty good camera imo. Nice and light (~650g iirc), auto frame counter and double-exposure lock. The Tessar (there is a version with a triplet Novar too) is sharp and renders that vintage look. The viewfinder is definitely where you compromise with a folder but that being said, the Ikonta's viewfinder is about as big as they get and has decent brightness too. No framelines, obviously, but for the way I shoot what parallax there is doesn't really factor into things. I learned to frame more generously and crop later.

 

[baachitraka]

I would rather look into Rolleicord Va or Ikoflex and for 400 you will get the camera, accessories plus some film and chemicals to develop etc.,

 

[jvo]

look at the fujica gs645 - a 120 film camera, front elements folds closed, a perfect 2nd camera in terms of durability, size and features, and carrying along with other equipment. big enough to produced a quality negative with features, (coupled rangefinder, meter), that make it easy and convenient to carry and use. also smaller than the fujica 6 with better ergonomics - in my opinion!

 

[henryvk]

look at the fujica gs645 - a 120 film camera, front elements folds closed, a perfect 2nd camera in terms of durability, size and features, and carrying along with other equipment. big enough to produced a quality negative with features, (coupled rangefinder, meter), that make it easy and convenient to carry and use. also smaller than the fujica 6 with better ergonomics - in my opinion!

Probably a very good choice but a bit more expensive than OP's brief.

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

+1 on Ikontas. Pretty light and portable cameras. Superb lens (if you find one with a good lens). If you are feeling adventurous, you can look for soviet copies, the Moskva. I have both a Super Ikonta 532/16 and Moskva and to be honest, Moskva quality is quite good. They do have the red window, but Super Ikonta have a frame counter so you may skip the red window.

Advise if you the folder road, lens struts should be firm and not wooby. Normally you should heard a low snap when struts looks in place. The Moskva I have is a Moskva V. Great and ingenious coupled rangefinder. Try to find one with the 6x6 adapter. I use it often when I dont want a gigantic negative.

 

[rduraoc]

But the Fuji GS645S will be closer to the price limit, and fit the requirements. I had one, lovely, lightweight camera, even though it took me a while to get used to it (shutter, aperture and focus selection are all quite close to each other).

 

[Marcelo Paniagua]

But the Fuji GS645S will be closer to the price limit, and fit the requirements. I had one, lovely, lightweight camera, even though it took me a while to get used to it (shutter, aperture and focus selection are all quite close to each other).

ummm seeing some on the $400-500 range on the bay. Looks like a great option if you like the camera ergonomics and portrait orientation. I prefer either the Mamiya 645 1000s or the Bronica ETRS ergonomics, but GS645S is a great camera nonetheless.

Fuji film lenses are superb. Have multiple Fuji large format lens and some 35mm lenses and they are excellent.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Thanks to everyone for talking me out of this crazy idea. I have just about decided folding medium format cameras are not for me. It sounds like they are too fussy to use (for me), and too imprecise when framing. Shooting slides for 40 years imprinted my brain with the idea that I need an accurate viewfinder, because there was no cropping with slides. During the past five years I have shooting 35mm b&w negatives, and I have managed to train myself to frame the photo in the (accurate) viewfinder of my SLR, and then take one step backward, to give myself a little more room to straighten and crop -- but I still feel the need to frame my subject precisely.

When I think about it, I really enjoy using my Pentax MX and Konica Autoreflex T4 35mm SLR cameras. And I think a lot of that enjoyment is due to their big bright pentaprism viewfinders, and their easy use and portability. I don't mind using an external lightmeter with medium format, but I do mind using a camera that requires multiple steps which must be done in a particular order to get it ready for the next shot. And I don't think I will be happy if I have to guess where the edges of the frame will fall, or if I have to estimate distances when focusing. Then there are reliability / serviceability issues, and I'm afraid the bellows might be a weak spot for all folders?

So I guess the question I am going to have to answer for myself is, Is there ANY medium format camera I would be happy with?

The things I hated most about the Mamiya C220 were:
1. the size and the weight of it
2. the dim focusing screen, along with the whole right-is-left, left-is-right thing
3. my inability to take photos at eye level
4. uncertainties with framing and focus at closer distances due to parallax errors (by closer distances, I mean anything in the 3-4 ft. range)
Adding a prism viewfinder might solve #2 and #3 but would make #1 even worse.

A folding medium format camera does a great job of solving #1, and avoids #2, but comes with it's own issues as discussed above.

A SLR medium format camera (with a prism finder) would solve #3 and #4, but will probably be even heavier than a TLR?

In spite of my dislike for the Mamiya C220, I do wonder if I might be able to live with a late model Rolleicord? True, it would still suffer from #2, 3 and 4, but if it was significantly smaller and lighter than the C220, and if the ground glass were significantly brighter, then maybe I could accept the rest? I've never seen, much less held a Rolleicord, but I've seen some comparison photos that make the Rolleicord look much smaller than the C220. I do like the idea of a Rolleicord, but how often does reality match our fantasies?

Or maybe I need to accept the fact that I am just not a medium format kind of guy?

 

[GregY]

R, The Rolleiflex/cord.... is a different world entirely. I settled on the Rolleiflex T....which has been serving me faithfully since beiing serviced by Harry Fleenor in 2011. Change the screen out for a Maxell or other bright one and you'll be laughing. IMO you can't beat an MF negative to work from (unless you go bigger)

 

[baachitraka]

Rolleicord Va's screen is bright compared to other cords. If you find one, then a good CLA and it will last really long.

 

[Dan Daniel]

OP, with all you say, I'd say that you should be using a Hasselblad with a prism. Ticks all the boxes except the weight issue, and even there I bet it isn't that much bigger or heavier.

Or a Bronica ETR series with a plain prism and speed winder

Face it, the C220 is about as big and clunky as you can get in medium format short of the press cameras. I understand their strengths and why people use them, but small and light are not on the list.

From looking over your images, you most definitely are a medium format kind of guy. Lots of tonality, detail, etc. Of course I am looking on the internet. Maybe 35mm gives you the tonality and detail in prints that you want. I understand the struggle to find a medium format camera that is as smooth to use as a 35mm. But at the end of the day, 35mm does not give me the look in the images that I want. Something you need to explore for yourself. There are very good reasons that 35mm replaced 120 for lots of work in the 1960s and beyond.

The Pentax ME Super is another camera with a great viewfinder, made just after the MX I think.

 

[baachitraka]

Yes, do not underestimate 135 format. So many cameras + good to very good lenses + accessories etc.,

Nikon & Canon
Olympus & Pentax
...