Which Medium Format Camera Meets My Needs?

[choiliefan]

Rolleicord Vb all the way. Interchangeable screens, ability to shoot 645 and takes bay1 filters.
Added utility by adding the Rolleiflex WLF with the nifty magnifying mirror/sportfinder or prism used in conjunction with pistol grip.
Nikon made a porrofinder for Rollei and Mamiya TLRs which is much lighter than factory prisms are.
With a 3d-printed adapter you can use a Hasselblad magnifying viewfinder or prism as well.
I actually prefer the Vb to my 2.8F 12/24.

 

[JPD]

The things I hated most about the Mamiya C220 were:
1. the size and the weight of it
2. the dim focusing screen, along with the whole right-is-left, left-is-right thing
3. my inability to take photos at eye level
4. uncertainties with framing and focus at closer distances due to parallax errors (by closer distances, I mean anything in the 3-4 ft. range)
Adding a prism viewfinder might solve #2 and #3 but would make #1 even worse.

A Rolleicord Vb has a bright fresnel screen, but you can get new even brighter screens. Older Rolleicords have dimmer groundglass, but they can be replaced as well.

The Rolleicord Vb can use a prism finder, and the viewing hood has a sportsfinder (not that useful for everyday photography, though).

The mirrored view is something hundreds of thousands photographers got used to. I don't even think about it when I use TLRs. But I understand that it's an annoyance for some.

Rolleicords are much lighter than the Mamiya C220. 940g vs 1440g (Mamiya C220 with the 80mm lens). A 500g difference!

The Rolleinar close-up lenses have built-in parallax compensation. It's not perfect, but you can use the camera hand held without having to worry about a cut off forehead. Mamiya has the Paramender, but you'll have to use it on a tripod.

The Rolleicord Vb has less things that can break or jam compared to a SLR or the more complicated Rolleiflexes.

 

[baachitraka]

It's also possible that you a bright screen for Rolleicord V.

Rolleicord V has one advantage that both the focus and winding knob on right-hand side.

That is a blessing if you are using hammer head (flash)...

 

[albireo]

A Rolleicord Vb has a bright fresnel screen, but you can get new even brighter screens. Older Rolleicords have dimmer groundglass, but they can be replaced as well.

The Rolleicord Vb can use a prism finder, and the viewing hood has a sportsfinder (not that useful for everyday photography, though).

The mirrored view is something hundreds of thousands photographers got used to. I don't even think about it when I use TLRs. But I understand that it's an annoyance for some.

Rolleicords are much lighter than the Mamiya C220. 940g vs 1440g (Mamiya C220 with the 80mm lens). A 500g difference!

Rolleicords are lighter than that. 940 is the ballpark for Rolleiflexes with f/3.5 taking lenses. Rolleicords are around 830-860g. Here's my Vb:

 

[Chan Tran]

Hasselblad H1 used are cheap but you have to get a film back, viewfinder and lens.

 

[JPD]

No. Rolleicords are lighter than that. 940 is the ballpark for Rolleiflexes with f/3.5 taking lenses. Rolleicords are around 830-860g.

Even better. I got the 940g from a quick Google search. Maybe it was weighed with the case.

 

[Besk]

It's also possible that you a bright screen for Rolleicord V.

Rolleicord V has one advantage that both the focus and winding knob on right-hand side.

That is a blessing if you are using hammer head (flash)...

My main regret for selling my Rolleicord V was the location of the focus and winding knob. The Rolleiflex focus is
opposite side from the film advance and shutter button.

 

[pentaxuser]

Or maybe I need to accept the fact that I am just not a medium format kind of guy?

Well that would solve the problem. In fact don't you need to ask the question:" What does a 35mm not give me that I really need?"

If most of your prints are not larger than 8x10 then I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a 35mm or 120 camera had taken the shot and even then depending on the film it may be possible to go bigger without grain being intrusive to the extent of spoiling the print

pentaxuser

 

[runswithsizzers]

OK, I am shopping for a Rolleicord Va or Vb. But it looks like the asking price for most of those are a little more than I want to spend.

So I am trying to decide just how much of a compromise it would be for me if I find an affordable Rolleicord IV. (Is there a model V that is not either a Va or a Vb?)

My biggest concern is how bright the focusing screen is going to be.

Is there any noticeable difference in the brightness and ease of focus between the model IV, Va, and Vb.

And which models can accept a third party screen — assuming the third party screen would be brighter or easier to focus (are they)?

Rick Oleson’s website suggests his screens fit only models Va and Vb, so I guess model IV cannot be upgraded?

 

[Dan Daniel]

There is a 'Cord IV for sale in the classified here right now. Well, it might be a III, not IV... double exposure prevention is the difference. $225 I think? Adding an Oleson screen is $100, do it yourself (4 screws, two clips, a little fiddly but nothing major). Not sure why his site says Va and Vb only; he cuts to fit.

Yes, there is a V, plain. From III to Vb, it's the Xenar lens and the same basic guts.

Vb usually came with plastic Fresnel screen, brighter. Changing screens is simple on almost all Rolleis.

The only real difference in carrying between a folder and a TLR is that the folder can slide into jacket pockets. The TLR will need either to be on a strap, or in a shoulder bag, knapsack, etc. Something like the Rolleicord is light enough that it won't be banging into you, digging into the body, etc. I used a 'Cord V as my hiking just-in-case camera for years.

Of course you still have the waist level finder. For the 'Cord, the two step process of needing to cock the shutter (very simple to become second nature).

 

[JPD]

OK, I am shopping for a Rolleicord Va or Vb. But it looks like the asking price for most of those are a little more than I want to spend.

So I am trying to decide just how much of a compromise it would be for me if I find an affordable Rolleicord IV. (Is there a model V that is not either a Va or a Vb?)

My biggest concern is how bright the focusing screen is going to be.

Is there any noticeable difference in the brightness and ease of focus between the model IV, Va, and Vb.

And which models can accept a third party screen — assuming the third party screen would be brighter or easier to focus (are they)?

Rick Oleson’s website suggests his screens fit only models Va and Vb, so I guess model IV cannot be upgraded?

The Vb is the one with the bright fresnel screen and removable hood. The IV, V and Va have a dimmer groundglass.

The Va and Vb have the focusing knob on the user's left side (because of the later counter mechanism). The IV and V have the focuisng knob on the user's right side, the same as the winding knob.

The V, Va and Vb have a selftimer. The IV does not.

They all have the excellent Xenar lens.

 

[runswithsizzers]

Well that would solve the problem. In fact don't you need to ask the question:" What does a 35mm not give me that I really need?"

Photograph is strictly a hobby for me, something I do for fun. The question is more about how I choose to spend my time than it is about the finished product.

If most of your prints are not larger than 8x10 then I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a 35mm or 120 camera had taken the shot and even then depending on the film it may be possible to go bigger without grain being intrusive to the extent of spoiling the print

My only access to a darkroom is while I am enrolled in a photography class. I was able to print one semester in 2019 and again this semester which is just ending. One day I may get a nice inkjet printer and see how I like that.

Obviously, I don’t “need” medium format size resolution for screen viewing, but it might be nice to have if I start inkjet printing?

 

[runswithsizzers]

There is a 'Cord IV for sale in the classified here right now. Well, it might be a III, not IV... double exposure prevention is the difference. $225 I think? Adding an Oleson screen is $100, do it yourself (4 screws, two clips, a little fiddly but nothing major). Not sure why his site says Va and Vb only; he cuts to fit.

I am very much aware of that Rolleicord IV in the classifieds, and the price is very tempting. If I could be 100% sure that I can put an Oleson screen in the model IV, then that camera would be under serious consideration.

I guess I need to contact Rick Oleson directly about that, unless there is someone here who can say yes it can be done, based on actual experience?

Yes, there is a V, plain. From III to Vb, it's the Xenar lens and the same basic guts.

Vb usually came with plastic Fresnel screen, brighter. Changing screens is simple on almost all Rolleis.

The only real difference in carrying between a folder and a TLR is that the folder can slide into jacket pockets. The TLR will need either to be on a strap, or in a shoulder bag, knapsack, etc. Something like the Rolleicord is light enough that it won't be banging into you, digging into the body, etc. I used a 'Cord V as my hiking just-in-case camera for years.

Of course you still have the waist level finder. For the 'Cord, the two step process of needing to cock the shutter (very simple to become second nature).

Thanks for providing these details, very helpful.

 

[Dan Daniel]

I guess I need to contact Rick Oleson directly about that, unless there is someone here who can say yes it can be done, based on actual experience?

Yes, it can be done, based on actual experience.

Rick also includes instructions on installing, etc.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I misread Oleson’s website. His list of comparable models says his screens work with Rolleicord models “I-Va” and Vb. I missed the “I-“ part, and thought it listed only only Va and Vb. My mistake.

 

[albireo]

Well that would solve the problem. In fact don't you need to ask the question:" What does a 35mm not give me that I really need?"

If most of your prints are not larger than 8x10 then I don't think I'd be able to tell whether a 35mm or 120 camera had taken the shot and even then depending on the film it may be possible to go bigger without grain being intrusive to the extent of spoiling the print

I don't even print and the choice of 35mm vs 120 makes a huge difference to my results. Grain is only one variable, and not even that important (in fact I often use very grainy film even in medium format).

The rendering of the old lenses in my TLRs gives me an image I can't obtain with my 35mm cameras.

More importantly, ergonomically my TLRs are worlds apart from my SLRs. The difference in camera-user interaction is so strong that I will actually seek completely different images, compositions and subjects depending on whether I'm using a TLR or an SLR.

There's a world of reasons why people use multiple formats beyond print size.

 

[baachitraka]

The Vb is the one with the bright fresnel screen and removable hood. The IV, V and Va have a dimmer groundglass.

The Va and Vb have the focusing knob on the user's left side (because of the later counter mechanism). The IV and V have the focuisng knob on the user's right side, the same as the winding knob.

The V, Va and Vb have a selftimer. The IV does not.

They all have the excellent Xenar lens.

I differ with Va, it is much brighter and uniform across and even in-doors you can focus easily. But V and other series lower than that are not so bright.

 

[Luckless]

Photograph is strictly a hobby for me, something I do for fun. The question is more about how I choose to spend my time than it is about the finished product.

My only access to a darkroom is while I am enrolled in a photography class. I was able to print one semester in 2019 and again this semester which is just ending. One day I may get a nice inkjet printer and see how I like that.

Obviously, I don’t “need” medium format size resolution for screen viewing, but it might be nice to have if I start inkjet printing?

Medium format is a nice and flexible option for hybrid processing, and as long as you process and store your negatives well they are still good to come back to in the future if you find/build access to a darkroom. It was nearly a decade ago when I got my first 'serious' film camera, years after that before I cobbled together something to play with contact prints, and I finally got an enlarger a few years ago that I've slowly been piecing together kit to actually use regularly.

I feel that 645 negatives are a bit too tight for contact printing in most cases outside of things like headshots, but 6x6 is enough room to make nice [if very small] prints of a wider range of subjects and styles. And the setup for that can be very basic and effective in a wide range of bathroom or closet setups.

So far I've shoehorned an Omega D5 into a small 1 bedroom apartment, and am blacking out a section of hallway with curtains and rods, and processing in trays on a cheap table set over my tub. But there are far more sensible and compact options to go with, especially if you're aiming for 8x10s mostly.

At some point I might get a 'proper darkroom' rolling, but I still enjoy a digitized view of my negatives for ages before I run them through a traditional process.

Photography is flexible and full of options. That's why there isn't a single way and set of gear that we're all using.

 

[runswithsizzers]

In the owners manual for the Rolleicord IV, there is a warning that says when using the 1/500 sec shutter speed the shutter speed must be set before cocking the shutter.

What will happen if I try to change to 1/500 sec after cocking the shutter?

Does this same restriction apply to later models (V, Va, Vb)?

 

[markjwyatt]

...

The things I hated most about the Mamiya C220 were:
1. the size and the weight of it
2. the dim focusing screen, along with the whole right-is-left, left-is-right thing
3. my inability to take photos at eye level
4. uncertainties with framing and focus at closer distances due to parallax errors (by closer distances, I mean anything in the 3-4 ft. range)
Adding a prism viewfinder might solve #2 and #3 but would make #1 even worse.

....

Funny, in the early 1990s I bought my dad's C330f lenses, and accessories plus bought a C220f body. At that time he moved up to a Bronica SQA kit. His biggest comment to me about what he missed about the CXX cameras was that he missed the bright viewfinder compared to the Bronica!

The pentaprism finder helps, but as you pointy out is heavy. The porrofinder is light, but not as nice as the pentaprism. The TLRs became my main cameras for many years (all but stopped using my 35mm), but yes, they are heavier and unwieldy at times. I am perfectly happy with TLRs. I would like to get a Rolleiflex and/or Rolleicord also.

I have a couple of folders (an Ihagee and a Franka Rollfix). The Ihagee with Tessar is really nice, but not very reliable. I do not like the red windows, and neither have rangefinders. Sometimes they do not erect correctly, and then are out of focus.

 

[JPD]

In the owners manual for the Rolleicord IV, there is a warning that says when using the 1/500 sec shutter speed the shutter speed must be set before cocking the shutter.

What will happen if I try to change to 1/500 sec after cocking the shutter?

Does this same restriction apply to later models (V, Va, Vb)?

The Synchro-Compur on the IV is of the older type that has a booster spring that is engaged when you set the shutter to 1/500, so you set the 1/500 speed first and then cock the shutter. The Synchro-Compur was later redesigned to work with the Exposure Value System (EVS), which needed linear speed and aperture settings, and at the same time they got rid of the booster spring. The Rolleicord V and later models have the redesigned Synchro-Compur.

When you set the speed to 1/500 on the Rolleicord IV you will feel a slight resistance when it engages the booster spring, and more so if the shutter is cocked, so you will probably not do it by mistake. And you normally cock the shutter just before releasing the shutter anyway, and it's easy because you cock and release using the shutter lever.

 

[runswithsizzers]

The Synchro-Compur on the IV is of the older type that has a booster spring that is engaged when you set the shutter to 1/500, so you set the 1/500 speed first and then cock the shutter. The Synchro-Compur was later redesigned to work with the Exposure Value System (EVS), which needed linear speed and aperture settings, and at the same time they got rid of the booster spring. The Rolleicord V and later models have the redesigned Synchro-Compur.

When you set the speed to 1/500 on the Rolleicord IV you will feel a slight resistance when it engages the booster spring, and more so if the shutter is cocked, so you will probably not do it by mistake. And you normally cock the shutter just before releasing the shutter anyway, and it's easy because you cock and release using the shutter lever.

Thanks for the additional information. When you say "you will probably not do it by mistake" I appreciate your confidence, but I seem to be pretty good at making mistakes. If changing to 1/500 sec after cocking the shutter is physically possible, then at some point in time I will probably do it. If that causes me to loose a frame, it would be irritating, but no big deal. But if this mistake causes the camera to lock up and require expensive repairs, then that is a different level of concern. Maybe I better hold out for a Model V, Va, or Vb which have the more idiot-proof shutter?

 

[pentaxuser]

I don't even print and the choice of 35mm vs 120 makes a huge difference to my results. Grain is only one variable, and not even that important (in fact I often use very grainy film even in medium format).

The rendering of the old lenses in my TLRs gives me an image I can't obtain with my 35mm cameras.

More importantly, ergonomically my TLRs are worlds apart from my SLRs. The difference in camera-user interaction is so strong that I will actually seek completely different images, compositions and subjects depending on whether I'm using a TLR or an SLR.

There's a world of reasons why people use multiple formats beyond print size.

Yes I agree with you last sentence but the OP seemed to be debating with himself if, in fact, he was an MF type of guy so I tried to respond to this. However his reply indicated that this was a "throw-away" kind of line that was not intended to be taken seriously but was the sort of musing that can happen when you trying to decide on what to do

So in summary, he made it clear in a reply that he is not really wondering if he is an MF type of guy at all so I am happy to withdraw from the thread.

pentaxuser

 

[JPD]

Maybe I better hold out for a Model V, Va, or Vb which have the more idiot-proof shutter?

Yes, maybe. The V/Va/Vb have a selftimer, which is another plus. And it seems that Schneider improved their quality control, so the Xenar lenses on these models have less sample variation. Try to find one with all speeds and selftimer working as they should. A CLA is sometimes needed, but it's not cheap.

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I misread Oleson’s website. His list of comparable models says his screens work with Rolleicord models “I-Va” and Vb. I missed the “I-“ part, and thought it listed only only Va and Vb. My mistake.

I THINK Rick breaks the models out separately because back years ago when he started offering screens, his original model screen was not large enough to fit a lot of models that took factory interchangeable screens including, IIRC, the Vb.

I installed one of his original(microprism donut) fresnel screens in my Rolleicord Va back in 2007 and have been incredibly happy with it. I also have the same screen in my Hasselblad 500C(I should specify my first one I bought as I have 3 of them now).

A few years back-like 2017 or 2018?-Rick acquired the tooling for one of the defunct aftermarket manufacturers of screens. I want to say it was Beattie, but don't hold me to that(Maxwell was the other name that comes to mind, but Beattie feels more right). This is a much larger screen blank and allows him to cut larger screens than the older blanks he was using, although I'm pretty sure he still offers the original style.

In early 2020(pre-plague) I reached out to Rick about fitting one of the latter in my Hasselblad 500 EL/M. At the time I don't think he offered screens for the EL/M or C/M, so offered to fit it for me. I lived close to him in Kentucky and we'd talked through email for years about meeting up, but never had. I ended up taking the EL/M to his house, though, for him to fit the screen. He asked me at the time to not share many details of the whole process publicly and I've respected that, but I will just say that I sat in his office/shop while he cut the screen from a blank, fnished it, then fitted and collimated it. A lot of his tools and jigs are of his own design and manufacture, but Rick is a VERY bright individual and it amazed me the relatively simple but still repeatable and accurate tools he had made for this. In addition, he has a diagram for a DIY collimator on his website, and after seeing his that he uses regularly, I've built a very similar one for myself.(not sure if he offers C/M/EL/M screens as a regular item item now, but after finishing mine he said that I might end up with a unique item given the difficulty of fitting a new screen to the old frame).

He did tell me that for the newer screens he offers, at least at the time he worked with a plastic injection molding company in Ohio who IIRC stored the tooling for the screens(which he described as about the size of a washing machine) but that he had been trained on operation of the injection molding machine and as sales/stock dictated he would travel to the factory and spend a few days making screen blanks. So, to that end, he truly DOES make the screens himself-starting from the raw acrylic-although at least as of a few years ago it wasn't a situation of him parking his 500SL outside(you can read about some of his "adventures" with that car on his website als) so that he could put an injection molding machine in his garage.

I know that's a lot of rambling, but I really like Rick a lot personally and also think he offers a great product at a great price.