Who makes Arista Classic Graded FB?

Ray Heath · Mar 28, 2007

menglert said:
Hello,

I'm interested in trying Kentmere Bromide graded FB paper. I saw that there is an Arista paper HERE. Does anyone know who makes (made) this paper? I was thinking it could be Agfa, or perhaps Kentmere Bromide.

Thanks,
Martin

does any of this matter?

if you like the paper and it is available and affordable, just use it, what does it matter who made it?

Silverhead · Mar 28, 2007

Ray Heath said:
does any of this matter?

if you like the paper and it is available and affordable, just use it, what does it matter who made it?

It certainly matters if the manufacturer isn't on a solid financial foundation & cannot guarantee if they're going to be around in the future...can anyone say Forte? Agfa? Bueller? Bueller?

Silverhead · Mar 28, 2007

Or is that "Beuller"?

PHOTOTONE · Mar 28, 2007

Silverhead said:
It certainly matters if the manufacturer isn't on a solid financial foundation & cannot guarantee if they're going to be around in the future...can anyone say Forte? Agfa? Bueller? Bueller?

You are referring to "Bergger" which is a marketer of higher-quality photo papers and film. Bergger is still around and will be around.

So, you are saying that if a manufacturer cannot guarantee that they will still be making b/w photo papers in 10 years, you don't want to use them? I think you better start learning to coat your own, or switch to inkjet printing, because I don't think any manufacturer could guarantee what you want.

I guess you wouldn't want to use AZO if someone gave you a good box of it, because it is discontinued and will never be made again?

Roger Hicks · Mar 28, 2007

Paul Sorensen said:
...didn't take long for bottom feeders like me to realize that it was Ilford that these folks were selling for less money. I am certain that it had the effect of cannibalizing their sales. When this happened, right around the time that Ilford reorganized, Freestyle announced a closeout of their arista pro line and they stated publicly that it was rebranded Ilford. Call them, I bet that they will let you know that indeed it is just that. Of course, it is pretty old product by now, so you need to take that into consideration.

Spot on! There's the advantage of lower unit cost by coating more paper (or indeed film) but as soon as people work out what the deal is, you're cutting your own throat.

Fortunately, for years under the old model, people saw the differences they wanted to see, not the real differences. To quote an ex-Ilford chum, from well before the reorganization and the decision not to sell 'cannibal' products, "In a head to head contest, we were delighted to be narrowly beaten by our own product."

It's a simple choice. Buy the best (which Freestyle is also very happy to sell you), with the Ilford label on -- or take your chance on old stock or who's making the product. Many 'own label' and Eastern European products are excellent, but one mistaken purchase of something that gives inferior pictures can eat up the advantage over the next 200+ pictures.

Frances shoots some Tri-X, and I sometimes shoot Fomapan 200 (at 125 -- the speed is almost identical to FP4 Plus, which I love in LF but don't get on with in 35mm, a purely personal quirk). The vast majority of what we shoot in mono, and all the paper we print on, is however Ilford. I'd say I shoot more HP5 plus than everything else put together, and that includes Delta 3200 of which I use a lot too. Nice people; enthusiasts; honest and open; great product -- and the MD doesn't constantly talk the product down.

Cheers,

R.

Mark Layne · Mar 28, 2007

John Shriver said:
As for why Ilford was selling their film and paper under other names, before their receivership, they had the problem of excess capacity. Their contract with the Labour Union called for a fixed minimal staffing level, which had come to be twice what they needed.

So, they would sell to private label sellers at prices lower than their average cost, but above the marginal cost of additional product (materials, electricity, but not labor). It was barely profitable on the margin, but it probably cost them sales in their primary branded business.

Now Ilford has staffing levels in line with their sales, and while that's sad for the folks who no longer work there, it's the only way the company can operate at a profit. It's also the only way anyone can have a job there.

As Margaret Thatcher said 'if two people are doing the job of one, both will lose their jobs'
Mark

menglert · Mar 28, 2007

Ray Heath said:
does any of this matter?

if you like the paper and it is available and affordable, just use it, what does it matter who made it?

Well, yes, it does matter to me. I want a paper that will be here now, and most likely in the future, and is within my budget. I am a student at the moment and trying to keep costs down generally. Therefore, since this likely is rebranded Ilford I'm staying away from it because the Ilford Graded FB papers are out of my price range.

I'm sure this paper is most likely very nice, but I simply cannot afford it, so I don't see the sense in learning with it now then not being able to buy it in the future.

Regards,
Martin

Ray Heath · Mar 28, 2007

menglert said:
Well, yes, it does matter to me. I want a paper that will be here now, and most likely in the future, and is within my budget. I am a student at the moment and trying to keep costs down generally. Therefore, since this likely is rebranded Ilford I'm staying away from it because the Ilford Graded FB papers are out of my price range.

I'm sure this paper is most likely very nice, but I simply cannot afford it, so I don't see the sense in learning with it now then not being able to buy it in the future.

Regards,
Martin

g'day Martin
that seems iillogical to me

learn what?, how to get stuck in a non-creative rut

most papers/film/chemicals regardless of brand will give a great result, why get stuck on one brand/type, is your work stuck on one genre/type/subject

too many posters on this site bemoan the loss of their pet product/material/equipment, get over it, be creative and adaptable

so you can't afford the good stuff now, so what, you probably don't do the work now that you will do in the future

menglert · Mar 28, 2007

Hi Ray,

Thanks for offering a different point of view. It is helpful to have someone challenge my thoughts at times.

Although, I think for my specific goals and process, I will have to stay with a single paper for a little time. I'm working on contact printing and want to keep the negs developed and adjusted to fit the paper well.

In the future I do hope to try out other papers and process, but for now I'm working towards my goals. Thanks for the input from everyone.

Regards,
Martin

Silverhead · Mar 29, 2007

PHOTOTONE said:
You are referring to "Bergger" which is a marketer of higher-quality photo papers and film. Bergger is still around and will be around.

Actually I was referring to "Ferris Beuller's Day Off".

Rick Rosen · May 3, 2007

I did some extensive testing years ago when Arista Classic was first announced by Freestyle. I also sent a bunch to Ansel Adams for his staff (my friends) to evaluate. By all indications it was Ilford Galerie. What I discovered as well as some others was that the contrast varied more from box to box of the Arista product than the Ilford product. My theory was, and it was only a theory, that when the emulsion runs were tested by Ilford if they were within the parameters for their marked grades they packaged it as Ilford. Other batches that were beyond those parameters were packaged Arista. This was kind of convenient because in addition to the standard grades 2, 3, 4, etc. by testing I also had grades 2.5. 3.5, etc.

Rick

Who makes Arista Classic Graded FB?

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