Would a "modern", good quality screwdriver set be JIS compatible?

jay moussy · Aug 25, 2020

I am just reading that the old JIS standard has been more or less incorporated into some current standard (maybe DIN 5260 or DIN 8764?), meaning that a modern quality driver set would work on JIS.

Is there some clarity on that?

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

The german manufacturer Wiha for instance claimed not to know about a JIS screwdriver, but their screwdrivers seem to fit perfectly anyway. Moreover Wiha makes part of the ISO committee for tools for screws.

To my understanding some (US) members here are obsessed with the term JIS screwdriver.

BrianShaw · Aug 25, 2020

https://chapmanmfg.com/blogs/news/phillips-bits-vs-jis-bits-whats-the-difference

BrianShaw · Aug 25, 2020

Auer · Aug 25, 2020

If you work on Japanese gear, there's little reason not to have a $20 made in Japan JIS set around even if you have other quality tools.
My VESSEL set from Amazon has been problem free and provide a firm set with no slips so far.

eli griggs · Aug 25, 2020

Tool maker Vessel, out of Japan has top quality "JIS screwdrivers", look for the small set that has all four 0, 00, ,000, 0000 PO crosspoint drivers.

Wiha, precision, and we are talking about small precision tools, are very good too, but are labeled 'Philips'.

I have both and they are all very good, though I have no tried to 'torq out' a JIS screw with a Wiha marked Philips, to test the utility.

Wiha have very long shafts available, and are easier to search out, online.

IMO.

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

If you look at fine "Philips" tips (at least with Wiha ones) you will recognize that they are shaped the "JIS" way.

And here in Germany (and neighbouring countries), except some nerds busy on international photo forums, no one knows of JIS screwdrivers.
Not even one of the major manufacturers...

Auer · Aug 25, 2020

AgX said:
If you look at fine "Philips" tips (at least with Wiha ones) you will recognize that they are shaped the "JIS" way.

And here in Germany (and neighbouring countries), except some nerds busy on international photo forums, no one knows of JIS screwdrivers.
Not even one of the major manufacturers...

Us photo nerds on a forum dont give a flying bagels worth about what Germans (and neighboring countries) know or not know about JIS screwdrivers.

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

But then stop telling us about them.

The OP understands the situation quite well.

beemermark · Aug 25, 2020

If your working on Japanese cameras and don't want to bugger the screws you need screw drivers labeled as JIS. Japan does it their way. Every European country seems to have their own standard despite the European Union. And there is no such as a Metric standard -

Kilgallb · Aug 25, 2020

When I worked in TV we had to have JIS to work on SONY gear, or you would damage the heads. Barco Monitors came with a European philips driver that was different from JIS. The angle appeared to be the same but the shape of the flutes were different. We had special slot screwdrivers for European transmitters. Then of course the good American philips for Ampex gear. Lastly throw in Robertson’s for the Canadian transmitters.

if you mixed them up, damage occurred.

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

Again: nobody denies that there are different screw head slots, and that one needs the apt drivers. But I reject the idea that one has to tell the whole world to use just only one model of certain designatiom that is not even known in parts of the world and nevertheless apt drivers are available there.

Furthermore I rather use an apt screw driver than a worn-out one of "right" designation.

BrianShaw · Aug 25, 2020

Use whatever works, and whatever you want to use. But why be argumentative about a screwdriver?

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

Well, I think I gave a reasonable answer to the OP who already seems to have understood the matter.

eli griggs · Aug 25, 2020

One difference that I have noticed, between the Vessel and Wiha cross points is the Wiha tool only go down in size to PH000, while Vessel offers 0000.

Since they are both metric, it's a curiosity to me.

Does Wiha make a 0000, in Philips?

AgX · Aug 25, 2020

As youself indicated, the small Philips drivers from Wiha are all shaped in JIS form. Their smallest size is 000.

bdial · Aug 26, 2020

For German made tools, Wera makes bits "Specifically optimized for Asian PH-screws", I don't know why they don't say JIS, but I guess it's implied
US supplier link. It looks like their smallest may be #000 though.
But, as noted, there are other makers that specifically state JIS compatibility, Moody (a US toolmaker) and Vessel (Japanese) seem to be recommended a lot.

Ill-fitting Phillips drivers make it easy to understand why a lot of newer stuff uses Torx and Penta-lobe screws.

AgX · Aug 26, 2020

bdial said:
Ill-fitting Phillips drivers make it easy to understand why a lot of newer stuff uses Torx and Penta-lobe screws.

Moreover, ill fitted Philips type screwdrivers (this rather is a problem caused by bad screw slot) wear out. And at least in theory cannot be grinded to shape again.
Torx etc. type of screwdrivers are better off in this instance.

Thus my hint at a post above, about what actually counts being the fit. Especially of the Philips type I thus got spare samples at hand.

AgX · Aug 26, 2020

bdial said:
For German made tools, Wera makes bits "Specifically optimized for Asian PH-screws", I don't know why they don't say JIS, but I guess it's implied

The reason is that this statement originates from Wera's german catalog and refers to their PH 00-000 sizes. And as said in Germany no one knows about JIS.
(the original text is: "optimized for japanese PH screws")

Wera's PH 0 drivers (thus only 0) though got a JCIS marking. Which to Wera is a reference to the Japan Camera Industry Standard. And sitze 0 being modified to that standard.

Dennis-B · Aug 26, 2020

Last year, I picked up a fairly complete set of micro drivers from Amazon. The kit is made by IFIXIT, and contains 64 bits, handle, and flex handle. It has the JIS, standard Phillips, cross-bit, Torx, etc. I already had a number of these but this kit keeps everything in one box, and displays the bits handily.

https://www.amazon.com/iFixit-IF145...=ifixit+kit&qid=1598451746&sr=8-4&tag=mh0b-20

AgX · Aug 26, 2020

That set looks great, but one may be aware of the price. For the price of that set one only gets about 5 complete drivers from a "brand".
In case of wearing-out of a bit one needs a whole new set unless one finds a fitting bit elsewhere.
Holders with bits are more heavy and (more important) more bulky at the point than complete screwdrivers.
In case the bits are held by magnet, a further problem may arise.

Dennis-B · Aug 26, 2020

AgX said:
That set looks great, but one may be aware of the price. For the price of that set one only gets about 5 complete drivers from a "brand".
In case of wearing-out of a bit one needs a whole new set unless one finds a fitting bit elsewhere.
Holders with bits are more heavy and (more important) more bulky at the point than complete screwdrivers.
In case the bits are held by magnet, a further problem may arise.

I have a number of dedicated "micro" screwdrivers in various bits (Phillips, Torx, JIS, etc.), but for handiness this kit works nicely. For years I've used jeweler quality micro tools for cameras, glasses, etc. My tools also include a number of sets of precision pliers, vises, clamps, etc.

AgX · Aug 26, 2020

I too bought cheap sets. (As when bits for security screws came to the consumer market. Quite some bits at different sets were unusable from the start, due to mal-manufacturing, but the rest paid off nonetheless).

Auer · Aug 26, 2020

Dennis-B said:
I have a number of dedicated "micro" screwdrivers in various bits (Phillips, Torx, JIS, etc.), but for handiness this kit works nicely. For years I've used jeweler quality micro tools for cameras, glasses, etc. My tools also include a number of sets of precision pliers, vises, clamps, etc.

Right tools make things so much better, The "Ifixit" tools are generally well received and even have the JIS tips that the Germans never heard of and therefore does not exist

AgX · Aug 26, 2020

No one said that such tip shapes do not exist. Everone with slightest experience in camera repair knows of different screw head slots.
But Apug is not just the USA. Constantly advising tools that many of us cannot get locally, when they can get fitting alternatives, is counterproductive.

I already hinted at that Wiha to own statement are part of the respective ISO commission, I guess Wera too.

In many threads it has come out that there has been a very different development of trade concerning japanese photo products in the USA and Europe, especially West-Germany. This may be one reason that terms as JIS have got ground in the USA but not over here. Furthermore I could hint at several terms, factors, techniques that are regarded as standard in the US photo world that are completely unknown here. Or only lately via Youtube swept over here and then by newbies here are regarded as standard too which then rather is parroting.

Would a "modern", good quality screwdriver set be JIS compatible?

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