Would like to join the 67 club. Pentax 6x7 or Mamiya RZ67?

[Skycreeper]

I have shot extensively with 135 and 645, now would like to get a 67. Don't want to spend too much, something under USD1k, the cheaper the better
Shortlisted Pentax 6x7+105 2.4 and Mamiya RZ67+110 2.8+AE chimney finder.

I like to take portraits during weekend outings, no studio work, no tripod.
I do like automatic functions on the camera. Manual focus is already challenging enough for candid shots, so I expect metering to be as simple as possible. Definitely no handheld meter, if got AE even better.
Lastly, I am a bokeh sucker.

Some theoretical analysis of mine:
Pentax 6x7 pros:
1. 105 2.4 bokehlicious
2. 1/1000s shutter speed
3. Cheaper than the RZ67 set
Pentax 6x7 cons:
1. No AE, need to adjust shutter speed manually
2. No info about shutter speed in viewfinder
3. CdS meter might not be accurate
4. I like waist level finder better

Mamiya RZ67 pros:
1. AE with chimney finder
2. Shutter speed displayed in finder
3. Waist level finder experience
4. Short minimum focus distance
5. SPD meter might be more accurate
Mamiya RZ67 cons:
1. Heavy
2. Big
3. 1/400s shutter

Currently I am leaning towards RZ67, but this is all my theoretical research, never held these cameras in my hand before. Therefore I hope to get advice.
1. Is this set of RZ67 too big and too heavy for casual family weekend shots?
2. I do like waist level finder better, but have no experience about any chimney finder. How is it?
3. How accurate is the CdS meter in the Pentax 6x7 (assume it is in working condition)?

 

[MARTIE]

Hello,
Apart from a smaller negative, what is it that you feel you're missing from your 645 kit?

 

[Skycreeper]

Hello,
Apart from a smaller negative, what is it that you feel you're missing from your 645 kit?

Hi, I miss something to scratch my 67 itch.
And a normal lens with real big aperture.
I got the pentax 645n and the 75 is 2.8 only

 

[loccdor]

I find the Mamiya 645 80mm f/1.9 lens to be similar in rendering to the 105mm f/2.4. If you used a slightly slower film in 645, you could get close with the look.

Neither of your two options are light cameras. My Mamiya 645 with normal lens is as much as I want to carry around with me all day on long trips.

Are you sure about no handheld meter? In a lot of cameras it's slower to meter with their built-in system. I've got a little pocket Gossen Digisix that takes me a couple seconds to use before firing off a string of portraits.

All that being said, my vote, for your purpose, is the Pentax 6x7.

 

[perkeleellinen]

I like to take pictures of wife and kid during weekend outings, no studio work, no tripod.

I am also doing this but with the smallest, lightest full control camera I can find - Nikon F55. My familiy won't tolerate me playing around with settings! Respect to you if you can get a 6x7 to work in this situation!

 

[MARTIE]

Hi, I miss something to scratch my 67 itch.
And a normal lens with real big aperture.
I got the pentax 645n and the 75 is 2.8 only

Then the Pentax 67 makes the most sense.

You've already got a Pentax so if you're happy with that, why buy into a new system and ethos?

You really don't want to be messing around with darkslides, bellows compensation and the like. Not for more spontaneous family snap shots and keepsakes.

 

[Oldwino]

Bronica GS-1 with the AE finder. 100mm f3.5. Lightweight (for 6x7), technologically the most modern. Prices are great on these right now.
You don't "need" anything faster with 6x7 really.

 

[Hassasin]

1. You're missing the Mamiya RB67
2. I have the Bronica GS-1 and DO NOT recommend it, when it dies it is all over. Body has magnetic shutter release that weakens over time and eventually stops actuating in-lens shutter. This was a fairly standard replacement piece back when they were serviced. I was excited when I got mine, have two bodies and one is exactly as stated, no hope for these. Yes it is a great camera, but the chances of dealing with dead one without notice does it for me. If anything buy the absolute newest body, it would have all black buttons, no silver anywhere. AT least that might indicate some more life in it.
3. Pentax 67 is a fine camera, but the kick you get upon releasing shutter may be surprising to you. On the other hand Mamiya RB67 feels like mirror lands on a pillow and with leaf shutter there is no concerns about shakes.

 

[Rick A]

Buy a 4x5 press camera. Go big or go home.

 

[choiliefan]

You can get a WLF or chimney finder for the Pentax if desired.

 

[Alex Benjamin]

None of them are ideal for what you want to do. Candid shots — if by candid you mean adults and kids moving/running around and you with them — is already a challenge with a waist-level finder, it would be even more so with a chimney (had one with the RB67 and found it worked best when using a tripod).

That said, precise focusing on the fly is not that easy with the Pentax 67, and it has one of the worst film-loading system in the history of camera building. OK, I'm a bit dramatic, but setting the spools in on that machine is a pain, and has made me miss a few candid moments when I tried to use it for that. It's also a camera that tends to develop important film-advance problems (the spacing on mine was so off that I only got 9 shots per roll) that are expensive to fix, so finding one in very good condition will not be cheap.

Moreover, don't underestimate the weight of the Pentax: it's a heavy camera.

To me, both cameras are ideal for slower work — portraits (i.e., when people aren't moving), landscape — than what you have in mind.

Although not the same ratio, and without meter, perhaps the lighter Fuji GW690 (ii or iii) would work best.

 

[Chuck1]

1. You're missing the Mamiya RB67
2. I have the Bronica GS-1 and DO NOT recommend it, when it dies it is all over. Body has magnetic shutter release that weakens over time and eventually stops actuating in-lens shutter. This was a fairly standard replacement piece back when they were serviced. I was excited when I got mine, have two bodies and one is exactly as stated, no hope for these. Yes it is a great camera, but the chances of dealing with dead one without notice does it for me. If anything buy the absolute newest body, it would have all black buttons, no silver anywhere. AT least that might indicate some more life in it.
3. Pentax 67 is a fine camera, but the kick you get upon releasing shutter may be surprising to you. On the other hand Mamiya RB67 feels like mirror lands on a pillow and with leaf shutter there is no concerns about shakes.

The pentax 67 has quite a kick,
I always wanted one. But then I had one in my hands... and didn't go for it

 

[Arthurwg]

Also missing the Mamiya 7 and 7II. Probably the best of the lot.

 

[loccdor]

Out of his price range of $1000.

 

[Arthurwg]

Sorry, missed that.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Two points that others may have missed: you can put a motor drive on an RZ; and the wind mech on P67's does get sticky at the feed side eventually - and that strains the wind side to the point of spring failure/ needs strip down & rebuilding.

 

[Pieter12]

Both cameras are beasts and not ideal for the kind of shots you want to make. The Pentax is best handled with three hands, you need two to steady it and a third to focus. The addition of a focusing lever on the lens helps once you have mastered the choreography and coordination involved. Mirror slap is a major consideration, too. So use fast film. I don't know much about the Mamiya, but the one time I had one in my hands, it did not seem any more practical. Fuji made some 6x7 RF cameras in your price range. Or you might consider upping your budget for a 6x7 rangefinder from Mamiya (a lot more) or the Plaubel Makina 67 (fixed lens). Neither has any automation though.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I prefer the RB over the RZed. No batteries required.

 

[abruzzi]

I have a P67, but I never really bonded with it. I much prefer my GS-1. I bought a couple spare bodies for US$100 each, and I have every lens except the two overpriced ones (80 and 500). I've shot over a hundred rolls with it and love the images it creates. I like the GS1 partly due to size, and partly because I like the ergonimics with the waist level finder.

The big benefit of the P67 (to me) over all the other 6x7 cameras is the focal plane shutter. It opens up the possibility of using a lot of non-standard barrel lenses. I have a piece to mount the P67 to a 4x5 camera. But none of that stuff looks to be what you're looking for. The P67 has an available WLF as well, but then you'd lose the built in metering you want, plus I don't find it as ergonimic as the WLF on the GS-1. One careful reminder--on the GS-1 and the P67, use of the WLF makes portrait orientation very difficult. It can be done, but not reccomended. The RB and RZ solve that with a rotating back, but that rotating back means everything else has to be larger to deal with both orientations.

 

[reddesert]

I think for this application you will need a big tripod. Hand the tripod to the kid, and that should slow them down enough to take a picture of them with either of these large 6x7 SLRs.

Given your preference for WLF, maybe a 6x6 camera with WLF, such as a 6x6 slr, or the Mamiya TLR, or a fixed lens TLR (Rolleiflex/cord, Yashica, Minolta, etc) would scratch the itch and also be easier to carry around.

 

[Light Capture]

Since you already have the P645, there's also an adapter to mount P67 lenses on it.
Other than that, it's mostly down to handling preference and size/weight considerations.

Another consideration is whether flash sync at higher speeds is important. That's where leaf shutter lenses have clear advantage but the leaf shutter limits them to smaller apertures.

 

[GregY]

I have shot extensively with 135 and 645, now would like to get a 67. Don't want to spend too much, something under USD1k, the cheaper the better
Shortlisted Pentax 6x7+105 2.4 and Mamiya RZ67+110 2.8+AE chimney finder.

I like to take pictures of wife and kid during weekend outings, no studio work, no tripod.
I do like automatic functions on the camera. Manual focus is already challenging enough for candid shots, so I expect metering to be as simple as possible. Definitely no handheld meter, if got AE even better.
Lastly, I am a bokeh sucker.

Some theoretical analysis of mine:
Pentax 6x7 pros:
1. 105 2.4 bokehlicious
2. 1/1000s shutter speed
3. Cheaper than the RZ67 set
Pentax 6x7 cons:
1. No AE, need to adjust shutter speed manually
2. No info about shutter speed in viewfinder
3. CdS meter might not be accurate
4. I like waist level finder better

Mamiya RZ67 pros:
1. AE with chimney finder
2. Shutter speed displayed in finder
3. Waist level finder experience
4. Short minimum focus distance
5. SPD meter might be more accurate
Mamiya RZ67 cons:
1. Heavy
2. Big
3. 1/400s shutter

Currently I am leaning towards RZ67, but this is all my theoretical research, never held these cameras in my hand before. Therefore I hope to get advice.
1. Is this set of RZ67 too big and too heavy for casual family weekend shots?
2. I do like waist level finder better, but have no experience about any chimney finder. How is it?
3. How accurate is the CdS meter in the Pentax 6x7 (assume it is in working condition)?

The RB/RZ are monster cameras.... they drove me to buy a 4x5. I virtually never used mine without a tripod. I've used the Pentax as well.... loved the 55mm but i had trouble getting acceptable sharpness with the tele lenses. I've used 6x6, 6x7, 6x8 a lot..... the RB & P67 didn't last long. I know they don't make your budget limit.... but I loved the Mamiya 6, used the Mamiya 7 for 6 months and didn't care for the bulk since it didn't collapse like the Mamiya 6. The Fuji GW 670/80/90 are great bang for the buck. Another camera w a stellar lens is the Plaubel 67/670.... but again outside your set budget. For the type of photos you're after i would not use either the RB/RZ or the P67..... i consider them too big/heavy/slow for kid candids. YMMV

 

[Paul Howell]

Mamiya Press with 6X7 back, 90mm or Universal with 6X7 back and 100, either 2.8 or 3.4. Make sure you get the grip. On the other hand if you want a systems camera then the Mamiya 6X7 provides the building blocks to build on, interchanaghle backs, finders, screens, and wide selection of lens. The Pentax is like a 35mm, quicker to use, but when held issues with mirror slap at lower shutter speeds,

 

[Taylor Nankervis]

I doubt USD1k will get you a 67 + kit lens; if it does, it would be worth casting a very critical eye on the value, given the age of both. Either/both cameras are frankly huge for what they are: just big, bulky, heavy MF cameras, again, either/both have been throttled relentlessly in aggressive professional use decades ago, hence their reliability going forward is today seriously questionable.

Snapshots at home are a long way off the remit of these guys — overkill on a grand scale. Handheld shots will be average and unremarkable — the unlikely star of the show, however unfavourable or unappealing to you, is a tripod, to bring out the very best quality in imaging the camera has to offer, outdoors, not in. Same with the RBs/RZs.

You might know these old dinosaurs do, today, see very serious work in landscape and portraiture where people with a lot of experience, together with those starting out and being guided by example. Photography approached assiduously and knowledgably will deliver big, satisfying rewards. The imaging quality is truly beautiful, but only if you take care with exposure focusing and the camera. It is not for snapshots.

Expect the need for repairs for the 6x7/67. The cameras are also old and prone to many faults and failure points, with the 6x7 (1969 to 1975) to 67 (1991-1992) having their fair share of serial offenders, such as winding mechanism pawls, the frame counter roller, mirror/shutter magnet retardation, internal corrosion, battery compartment corrosion, broken or jammed film clasps and poles and (very common, especially among those using 35mm 'panorama conversion' kits in this camera, which have a disturbing history of jamming the mechanism) derangement of shutter speeds. The TTL meter can decay in accuracy (especially those from 50+ years ago!), but it can be recalibrated (by a service facility). Its rudimentary 5-stop range (+2.5 / -0- / –2.5) is restrictive comparison to cameras of today, which is why many users bypass the TTL with a handheld multispot/averaging meter (which also handily extends the dynamic range of whatever film you are using).

And lastly...
The meter coupling chain of the 6x7 / 67 is the proverbial Achilles Heel that trips up the new, unwary user fairly quickly — the camera is not entirely a paperweight after that misadventure (the chain is placed under excessive stress if both lens and TTL prism are removed/reinstalled incorrectly), but you'll only be able to use the camera in stop-down mode.

I would suggest you stick with 135 and 645 — formats you are familiar with.

 

[Someonenameddavid]

Koni~Omega Rapid sounds like you are chambering a Shell….