Your Experience with Bulk loading 35mm Film

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Ivo Stunga

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I started to roll bulk about a year or two ago, economics urged to do so.
Now I load most of my film myself and by hand, minimizing film travel through the felt gate (loading/unloading from top).

Saves money, gives you material to work/learn on, introduces flexibility in one's workflow/hobby and is a nice thing to have. Extra joy if they come in tin can.
My local store isn't too happy about this, but I am lol
 

Sharktooth

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Bulk loading is great, since you can do shorter rolls than are commercially available. 12 to 15 shots on a roll is plenty for me. I'd even use shorter rolls, but that creates a high percentage of waste for the leader. I also install and remove the cassettes in a darkroom, so I don't lose the frames at the end of the roll.

I'm used to 120 roll film where I get 8 to 12 frames on a roll. Even that's too much for most shooting sessions, so It would take me forever to finish a regular 35mm roll. If I need to shoot a lot, and quickly, then I just go the digital route.
 

Mal Paso

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I used a Lloyd's and metal snap cap cassettes. Keep the felt clean and the spool end exposed film short, you can do that with a Lloyd's.

I've used Watson and a few others and they were more trouble to operate.

Lost my film equipment and only replaced 4x5 so I've no idea of the current 35mm economics but in my past it was about having a shipload of film, cheap, and shooting all the time.
 

cmacd123

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this may be redusndant, But I have been using a mix of bulk and factory packed film since the 1960s :

100ft (30.5m) roll of 35mm film is good for somewhere between 17 and 20 36exp rolls. Use 17 to calculate.
Take the quoted price and divide by 17 and compaire that to the price of just buying 36 exp rolls of the same film. you can decide if there IS a saving, and if their is - if it is worhwhile.

fresh B&W cine film is down to EASTMAN 5222 at 250 ASA. these days the year of manufacture is in the edge printing so you can tell how fresh the film you received is. Kodak sells 5222 in a minimum 400ft roll (or a 1000 ft roll) unless you have 35mm movie editing equipment you may have to get it repacked as sold by folks like FFP and Ultrafine on line. ORWO did have some very price attractive cine film a few years ago, and you MIGHT find some UN54 (100 ISO) rolls arround, most of us are waiting patently to see if that oportunity will open again.

Most Bulk loaders will fog the last frame of each roll of you use them as the instructions say. 40 years or more ago I got into the habit of turning off the light when attaching the film to the spool, and closing the Cassette. My normal loader is a Long discontinued ALDEN 200, which as the name implies will accept up to a 200 ft roll of bulk film, but fogs slightly more than one frame if you use it with the lights on. No problem if you turn off the lights when changing spools.

FOMA - Arista Ultra seems to be the chepest bulk stock arround, normally a cople of buck cheper in North America under the Arista Brand. I am suspicious that this is the underling film sold as Ultrafine Finesse, and Flic Ultrapan Judging by Published processing times. the FOMA bulk does not come with ANY edge printing. The posters on this site seem to either love or dislike the FOMA B&W films. Assuming that the stock suits you needs, it seems to be the least expensive bulk film as of this month.

the Kodak Vision colour Camera films are all for Process ECN-2, and all have a very effective Removable black anti halo coating on the back. this can be a nuisance or a challenge to deal with in home processing those films, and only a few commercial labs are set up to process ECN-2 in still lengths. Accidentaly sending an ECN-2film to a C-41 lab is Likly to result in the lab having to change some or all of the chemicals in their processor. The Gamma (contrast) of ECN-2 films is lower then still film, which is not an issue with a Hybrid Workflow, but can result in sub optimal prints if printing convetonally.

in the good old days when most TV shows and Movies were shot on film, the studios often had "short ends" with were sold as a small sub industry. Movie Cameras churn through film at 90 ft a minute, so left over rolls of 100-200ft were not worth tring to use on a set. Both student film makers and still Photographers would buy the stuff.
 

eli griggs

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I bulk load all the time. I don't actually care much which loader - I only use those to store the film. I pull some film off the spool in the dark and wind it by hand. I hate the plastic cassettes - they don't fit well in some cameras. There are plenty of reusable cassettes you can get, if you look for them. Old Ilford and old Kodak films came in reusable cassettes - although the older the cassette, the more likely it is to have cruddy velvet or leak light somehow.

Bulk loading allows you to make short rolls, which a lot of people (including me) like. However, every roll has the same amount of waste, so the more rolls you make from a 100 feet, the more you waste (4 inches of each roll, roughly, making the leader - add 1-2 inches to the other end if you use the actual loader to load the film).

Bulk loading is mainly for people who do their own developing. Otherwise, you need to tell the lab to give you back your cassette - which may slip their mind (or yours).

It is definitely cheaper to bulk load. Even if you buy the outrageously-priced Kodak bulk rolls of Tmax or Trix, you save a bit of money over buying factory rolls.

Get the full benefit of an one hundred foot by reusing tails and tongue from preloaded rolls of films.

Save long tongues and simply leave in place the tail, on its original spool.

Square up both connection points (some additional old processed film may needed to make a tail a bit longer for attaching live film.

A tool I wish I had for this is a 35mm cine film splicer, which will cut films square and operated in the dark when cutting raw films, so if you've the opportunity to learn to use one of these, give it a try.

Though I've some of the plastic cassettes, the tops of which I secure with a tiny bit of tape, use the factory spools you've set up for reloads and save the new spools for the future, you'll never know when you'll need them.

For example, say you've only one or two bulk loaders, and know you want one or both of the tools, spooled to a specific frame count for use in cassettes.

Prep the spools by putting on tails of old used films, if you don't have any more preloaded spools left, and spool on the raw film.

Cut off of the loader, when finished with this step.

Add the tongue, by exposing a minimum amount of raw film, while still in the loader bay and, with the lights out, pull out the roll, tape the tongue snugly wrapped around the roll and place it up into a light proof plastic bag, like the enlarging paper comes in, or the original spool's black bag and close it up while you do the next roll.

You'll likely run out of tin can space if you've got more than five of six rolls of film left, so mark clearly whatever light proof bag you are using.

This way, you've freed your loader(s) for new films and you've extra rolls to take on long or heavy shooting trips, or to leave at home/studio.

You'll, of course, need a shot film bag for each type of exposed film you've shot and a strip of tape to hold it in a spooled configuration, when you transfer a fresh roll to now empty reloadable cassette.

TIP;
If you have any extra cassette lids, pack them along, as you'll never know when you might mislay one in or around a dark changing bag or tent.

The use of tounges and tails is, as far as I know, the ONLY way to get the maximum frames out of a roll of film, for individuals doing their own bulk loading.

Merry Christmas and Godspeed to ALL!
 

eli griggs

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Post scrip; sort of.

I have and use several types of laders, including one 70mm unit, an Alden, I believe, and only have had an issue with one that simply needs it's felt replaced.

Aldens, Watsons, which is what I started out on, a German bakelite box, (Mein problem problemkinder) and a couple other types.
 

cmacd123

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one thing to watch out, if you get a loader as part of a load of darkroom equipment, I have found a few with a chip out of the light trap. which would not be a good ting to find out later.
 

131802

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I bulk load nearly all of my 135 b/w film. A Watson-style unit holds my bulk roll, which I wind onto the spindle using a little hand-crank (the crank is made by Leitz!) Bulk loading works ok for me because the cost savings outweigh the cons, just barely. And the cons are many:

* Obtaining good quality metal cassettes. I use mostly Kodak snap caps, plus a few Kalt metal cassettes; both of which are increasingly hard to find. You have to clean the felt lips minimize the risk of film scratching. I’ve never used plastic cassettes.

* Securely taping the film to the spindle. I use blue or white masking tape, and it’s pretty reliable. However last summer the masking tape failed on one of my cassettes, preventing me from opening the camera to retrieve the exposed film until I got back to my darkroom. Major inconvenience.

* Cassette end caps popping off. This has never happened to me in the field, probably because I’m super careful about making sure the end caps are firmly engaged. This is presumably not a problem with plastic screw-tops or reused commercial cassettes.

* Light leaks during the loading process. I wish I could say this hasn’t happened to me. I’ve never lost an entire bulk roll, but I have exposed individual cassettes. Opportunities for this kind of mayhem are plentiful, involving every step of the process. It doesn’t take much wasted film to erase the cost savings from bulk loading.

* Cassette labeling. I bulk load HP5 and FP4. I once shot and developed two bulk loaded rolls of FP4 as if they were HP5. After that fiasco, I now write the film speed on every cassette, and on the plastic cans they travel in. I don’t rely on dx coding.

If you’re willing to accept these cons, and are careful and methodical in your loading and use of bulk film, then I recommend it.
 

eli griggs

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I bulk load nearly all of my 135 b/w film. A Watson-style unit holds my bulk roll, which I wind onto the spindle using a little hand-crank (the crank is made by Leitz!) Bulk loading works ok for me because the cost savings outweigh the cons, just barely. And the cons are many:

* Obtaining good quality metal cassettes. I use mostly Kodak snap caps, plus a few Kalt metal cassettes; both of which are increasingly hard to find. You have to clean the felt lips minimize the risk of film scratching. I’ve never used plastic cassettes.

* Securely taping the film to the spindle. I use blue or white masking tape, and it’s pretty reliable. However last summer the masking tape failed on one of my cassettes, preventing me from opening the camera to retrieve the exposed film until I got back to my darkroom. Major inconvenience.

* Cassette end caps popping off. This has never happened to me in the field, probably because I’m super careful about making sure the end caps are firmly engaged. This is presumably not a problem with plastic screw-tops or reused commercial cassettes.

* Light leaks during the loading process. I wish I could say this hasn’t happened to me. I’ve never lost an entire bulk roll, but I have exposed individual cassettes. Opportunities for this kind of mayhem are plentiful, involving every step of the process. It doesn’t take much wasted film to erase the cost savings from bulk loading.

* Cassette labeling. I bulk load HP5 and FP4. I once shot and developed two bulk loaded rolls of FP4 as if they were HP5. After that fiasco, I now write the film speed on every cassette, and on the plastic cans they travel in. I don’t rely on dx coding.

If you’re willing to accept these cons, and are careful and methodical in your loading and use of bulk film, then I recommend it.

one thing to watch out, if you get a loader as part of a load of darkroom equipment, I have found a few with a chip out of the light trap. which would not be a good ting to find out later.

If you are patience, you can easily mold a bit of polymer clay to just a bit larger for each gap. Cure them in a oven (toaster oven from thrift store works fine) and slowly fit into the missing gap, using tiny files to better shape the replacement into shape.

When your final form is achieved, before gluing it in place, give it several thinned coats of shellac, a one to two pound cut, not the normal three pound solution, letting it dry/cure completely between each layer.

This will isolate the plasticizers in the polymer clay, so it does not soften the surrounding plastic.

I suggest you just use a plain black clay, not one of the ones that look like stones, (the stones effect was from tiny filaments) so you do not have to paint the tiny chipped out replacement piece.

Epoxy material like two part Bondo dough, should also work, but, not only will you have to paint it black, but you'll he handling and breathing epoxy material and vapors, no so good for anyone's health.

IMO.
 

mshchem

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I embrace anything that adds completely, it's a true part of the analog experience 😊 No cost savings to speak of, but it is fun! Good used loaders are readily available, be careful that the case isn't chipped, especially the old Lloyd's Bakelite version. I have the Watson version, even closes up Leica cassettes.
 

Bill Burk

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My experience with mass loaders is not very good. I had bought some old Watsons and Computrols with the idea of using them for various films. But the first unpleasant experience with them is that you lose the last one or two frames. This can be especially annoying if you miss an important point. To avoid this, you have to load in complete darkness, which to me pretty much makes the loader pointless.
The second thing that stopped me from using them is that they take up too much space in the fridge, and they take a lot more care when defrosting. If it condenses, it's bad for the film.
The third - I have a bad experience with scratching the film. It could be specifically from my loader numbers, but...
I wind rolls by hand without using a loader. I have made a methodology and it is done quickly, without problems.

I load in the dark. I don't keep the bulk loader in the refrigerator. Once the bulk roll comes out of the freezer it stays 'cool' but not refrigerated.
I am cautious with the cleanliness of the felt trap but enjoy a fresh Kodak Snap Cap cassette from time to time. (These are twenty bucks each on eBay now so a rare treat).

In addition to the cleanliness of the light trap on the cassette, you want to reduce the number of passes that film makes across the trap. So I pop the cassettes open when reeling to develop. I know some people will save the leader and pull the film out to reel, but I would want to avoid that extra trip across the trap.

W. Eugene Smith reeled his film by hand. It's something to consider if you're a purist.

All this paranoia because one of my first and favorite waterfall shots has a black scratch across half the frame.
 

petrk

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TIP;
If you have any extra cassette lids, pack them along, as you'll never know when you might mislay one in or around a dark changing bag or tent.
Just an idea. My friend uses small pieces of phosphorescent (glow in the dark) stickers to mark small objects. Especially the lids. Sometimes he distributes bulk 120 film to his acquaintances. His film cans are labeled as such. All important items, such as scissors, louder parts, could be labeled this way.
 

Radost

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Bulk loading is cheap and flexible . Use AP BobinQuick loader. The best out there
My color film is $4.20 a roll of 36 exposures.
 

Mr Flibble

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I started out with a Watson 100 a few years ago. Figured out how to save those frames at the end to make it a little more economical with a change bag.
I mainly use an AP Bobinquick now as it is slightly less hassle for the same film economy.

Counting out 40 clicks per roll gives me about 17-18 cassettes with 36-37 frames out of a 100ft roll
 

koraks

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I started out with a Watson 100 a few years ago. Figured out how to save those frames at the end to make it a little more economical with a change bag.

Yeah, I do the same. I actually load the cassette itself in the dark with the loader's lid open because the counter mechanism tends to jam easily. I just run the film over my thumb and count turns. It's super fast, too; takes only a couple seconds to spool a roll. Cutting, taping and cassette assembly takes up most of the time.
 

Radost

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Yeah, I do the same. I actually load the cassette itself in the dark with the loader's lid open because the counter mechanism tends to jam easily. I just run the film over my thumb and count turns. It's super fast, too; takes only a couple seconds to spool a roll. Cutting, taping and cassette assembly takes up most of the time.

If you get film end cutter and AP cassetes you don’t have to tape! Giant saving of time!!!!!!!
 

Dustin McAmera

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Someone posted about this one a while back. I have no personal experience of it. 80 dollars. It punches two little holes, which have to have the right kind of spool to attach to.

 

Anon Ymous

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Someone posted about this one a while back. I have no personal experience of it. 80 dollars. It punches two little holes, which have to have the right kind of spool to attach to.


Ouch! I guess I'll keep taping my films. Or I could repurpose a paper punch? $80 is a bit too steep. 😕
 

Alan9940

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I haven't had any issues with scratched film from the felt of my reloadable cassettes...yet, but so I know for the future. How do you all clean the felt? Thanks!
 

tokam

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Combination of a blower brush and a Post-it note folded in half with the adhesive on the outside. Remove the spool from the cassette and run the folded Post-it through the cassette lips along with a few puffs from your Giotto rocket blower or similar.

On a similar vein, what are you doing getting grit anywhere near your film cassettes? Film should come out of the plastic tub and then be loaded into a clean camera. Shoot the film and return the cassette to a clean tub before subsequent development. No need for any grit to get near your film.

@eli grigs suggestion for using scrap film to make leaders for your bulk loaded film is a good one. I measured my cameras and I think that 4 frames of scrap film, (around 32 sprocket holes), should be enough. I have even used old negative strips which have been scanned and are no longer needed. I will never be wet printing from these negs as their condition is very poor after 40+ years. Took a long time to manually clean up the scans and I have multiple backups of the scans.
 

Alan9940

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On a similar vein, what are you doing getting grit anywhere near your film cassettes? Film should come out of the plastic tub and then be loaded into a clean camera. Shoot the film and return the cassette to a clean tub before subsequent development. No need for any grit to get near your film.

I try really hard to not get any grit, dirt, dust, etc inside my camera or anywhere near my empty cassettes and where I load them. But, I'm keenly aware that windy conditions in the desert (most of my photography) usually involves dirt/sand flying around, even if I can't see it. That's one reason why I like 36 exposure loads, if I'm shooting 35mm; minimize opening the camera back. When shooting LF, I tend toward calm days which I need for other reasons, too.
 

laingsoft

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I have two loaders, a Lloyds and a Watson. I like both.

The biggest pro, and the reason why I even bother is cost. It can be significantly cheaper, especially if you are shooting something like foma 100, Orwo UN54+ or some other cheap film. If you want HP5 or Tri-X your savings will probably be marginal. If you do color the savings are pretty big, but it's technically shooting ECN2 film, not C41
The cons: You lose your first and last frame. Not a huge deal to me, personally. The biggest is that if you make a mistake, you might flash an entire 100ft roll of film, which is painful. Another con is that if you like switching film, once you put a spool in your loader you are kind of married to that stock until you use it up. That can be kind of limiting or annoying if the seasons change and the film stock you were using before doesn't work as nicely in the new light.
 
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