OP
OP
Patrick,
Thanks for the generous offer, but I jumped online and ordered one a few hours ago.
Darn my impatience!
Thanks again.
Zone VI modified Pentax Digital Spotmeter confusion
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Patrick,
Thanks for the generous offer, but I jumped online and ordered one a few hours ago.
Darn my impatience!
Thanks again.
OP
OP
Exactly. At ISO 100 the readout really is the EV. At other ISO, it’s LV. But that’s a totally separate religious debate.
Dang. I should have stuck to Sunny 16!
But I got this meter in a full Zone VI kit, 4x5 camera, 90mm Nikon 4.5, 210 Schneider 5.6, Zone wooden tripod, Zone Viewing filter, Zone camera bag, mountains of Zone books (including every Zone Newsletter ever published in binders), a wallet full of B&W filters, a Steerman Press 4x5 tank, filters, a box of Ilford Delta 100 (out of date but...) and tons of other gadgets and gibbons.
This guy went full Zone VI when he got into the hobby, but it had been sitting for a long time and he decided to get rid of it at a very reasonable price
I folded like a cheap suit..
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Exactly. At ISO 100 the readout really is the EV. At other ISO, it’s LV. But that’s a totally separate religious debate.
What I meant is that all other spotmeters have that reading. So people are willing to pay the big price for the dial.
That’s quite an outfit!
But there’s one thing not quite right. Picker favored a 120 rather than 90.
The Zone newsletters are interesting historical reads. Enjoy!
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Butzi used a color target instead of real targets. I don’t think that was fair.
The color checker green is not the same as real life green.
The green that throws off meters is the foliage. You know, because it reflects a lot of infrared. Even my Sekonic L-758 DR thinks it’s bright daylight when I have my infrared viewer on.
On the other end of the spectrum ultraviolet affects film more than the meter. (Assuming lens lets UV through). Anyway you’re instructed to add UV filter to the camera. I have a couple UV meters and they tend to read zero through glass.
The color checker green is not the same as real life green.
The green that throws off meters is the foliage. You know, because it reflects a lot of infrared. Even my Sekonic L-758 DR thinks it’s bright daylight when I have my infrared viewer on.
On the other end of the spectrum ultraviolet affects film more than the meter. (Assuming lens lets UV through). Anyway you’re instructed to add UV filter to the camera. I have a couple UV meters and they tend to read zero through glass.
OP
OP
I skimmed them today but missed this; Thanks!
OP
OP
That’s quite an outfit!
But there’s one thing not quite right. Picker favored a 120 rather than 90.
The Zone newsletters are interesting historical reads. Enjoy!
Maybe he sold the 120 earlier or that was his sole non-conformist act!
In any regard, I am quite taken with how compact the camera folds and everything I need but the tripod fits in the bag.
Now I can make it more than 50 yards from the car!
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It’s impossible to find things in those. I was lucky it had a post-it flag.
There’s a PDF index out there
I fully agree with Paul Butzi that this meter was part of the typical Picker Zone VI marketing hype and think that the non-modified digital Pentax is a ton better. As far as the sticker goes: Yes ,print one out,scale it to fit and glue or tape in place. I'll add one to this post ,you can have for free!
Is the 90/4.5 as nice as it looks...
OP
OP
Looks good on the ground glass, but only got it yesterday, so no images yet.
again for free:
I don't pay for the dial. I keep the dial in my head. If I pay big money for a meter it's for the accuracy. I know in photography we don't need accuracy (1/3 stop is 30%) but I am a sucker for accuracy.
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I make dials with chips of an enlargement from the step wedge. That way the meter is “indexed to the print” and I can better see where things will fall. Once I set the dial to a “candidate” exposure, I will walk about the scene and check what that thing will look like on the print.
Accuracy no. Linearity and repeatability yes. After some costly incorrectly exposed shots back in the day I have all of my meters set to ISO 100 and do the ISO, zone, filter factor, etc. conversions in my head.
I have one of Picker's modified meters. It still has the dial sticker but I ignore it, and the dial itself, and just look at the digital meter LV reading.
First thing I did when I bought a used modified Pentax Digital is to take off that stupid (IMO) sticker.
I do not worry too much about the accuracy of a tool when every aspect of the the use of that tool will change the results one gets. I just want it to give repeatable results so that I can find a way to use it with a significant degree of accuracy.
I do not worry too much about the accuracy of a tool when every aspect of the the use of that tool will change the results one gets. I just want it to give repeatable results so that I can find a way to use it with a significant degree of accuracy.
Accuracy requires linearity and repeatability. Linearity and repeatability don't neccessarity mean accuracy. But any way any spotmeter would give you the LV reading. The Pentaxes are fine but they are not more accurate than a Sekonic, Minolta or Gossen. But take the example of the Minota Spotmeter M people would pay a lot more for the Pentax than the Minolta. Is the Pentax more accurate?
My two Z6 give identical readings. I meter shadows and/or highlights and mid tones which ever I want to emphasise as well as considering filter factor and make the exposure adjustment in my head. I don’t use the dial but sometimes compare it to what I came up with Often I will bracket in case I might change my mind when printing or if I can’t return to the scene. Also I might take a frame with and without a filter. I use black and white and I guess I like to cover the bases
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Bill - The Macbeth chart patches are very precisely manufactured in terms of equal saturation of the primaries (R,G,B) as well as the secondaries (C,M,Y), plus a very neutral equally spaced gray scale. This is important when testing. What you term as "real" green, presumably in nature, varies tremendously, and has to be learned and accommodated through experience, exposure-wise, whether with respect to color film or black and white films, which vary in their specific green sensitivity.
Much green in nature also reflects a lot of red, orange, and yellow light due to other pigments being present, and not just the dominant green of chlorophyll, which often fades in autumn anyway. That fact make Fred's little spectrographic graph of a "red apple" versus a "leaf" rather unscientific in terms of meter response, and his other graphs are highly questionable too in terms of actual objectivity; but that's what one would expect from his county fair "snake oil" marketing approach.
Chan Tran - the Minolta and unmodified Pentax spotmeters read identically. The difference is that the Pentax is simpler to use and more robust out in the field. I find the manual dial much quicker and more intuitive to use than the Minolta pushbutton readout. Both these brands gave exceptionally consistent readings meter to meter, as well as excellent linearity within a realistic range. But in spectral terms, the SPD's of both are weighted on green, just like their own graphs show (not Picker's).
Otherwise, just because the LED readout per se of the Minolta is given in 10ths, it doesn't mean its actually anymore accurate than the Pentax. For all practical purposes, I found mine to be the same.
Much green in nature also reflects a lot of red, orange, and yellow light due to other pigments being present, and not just the dominant green of chlorophyll, which often fades in autumn anyway. That fact make Fred's little spectrographic graph of a "red apple" versus a "leaf" rather unscientific in terms of meter response, and his other graphs are highly questionable too in terms of actual objectivity; but that's what one would expect from his county fair "snake oil" marketing approach.
Chan Tran - the Minolta and unmodified Pentax spotmeters read identically. The difference is that the Pentax is simpler to use and more robust out in the field. I find the manual dial much quicker and more intuitive to use than the Minolta pushbutton readout. Both these brands gave exceptionally consistent readings meter to meter, as well as excellent linearity within a realistic range. But in spectral terms, the SPD's of both are weighted on green, just like their own graphs show (not Picker's).
Otherwise, just because the LED readout per se of the Minolta is given in 10ths, it doesn't mean its actually anymore accurate than the Pentax. For all practical purposes, I found mine to be the same.
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Fred lived in Dummerston and used Newfane next door as the business address. I swallowed the hype back in the day and sent a used needle type Minolta spotmeter to Zone VI for the conversion. As a new photographer it made me feel more confident whether or not it was better than an unmodified one. Last September I was photographing on a rail bridge and the meter slipped out of my bag into the drink. I found a Soligar Zone VI Modified Spotmeter for a 1/4 of the price of the Minolta's and sent that to Richard Ritter to be calibrated. I bought a new sticker although I could have printed my own. I like the convenience of seeing the grey zones. It works for me and if you are lucky enough to find one in your kit then use it.
Those exposure errors for the unmodified meter seem odd to me. If there were decimal points in front of the number, perhaps, but otherwise I'm a skeptic.
I didn't see Chris Crawford's test of the Minolta Spotmeter M.
You are correct. My error. I’ll delete that erroneous thought. Thanks!
I you were thinking of the Sekonic then there should be a different because Pentax uses K14 (same as Minolta) but Sekonic uses K12.5. The difference is small. The Sekonic should read 1/6EV higher.
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