110/16mm Camera Image Quality

[Huss]

Pentax Auto110, Fukkatsu 400, 24mm 2.8 and no distortion whatsoever.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I bought a stash of 110 film a year and a half ago. I got it for the unexposed rolls, but there were exposed rolls too. I finally got around to mixing up chems a couple weeks ago to try to tackle the mound of undeveloped color film I have. So far with some rolls developed not a single image on any of them. Film looks like it is heat roached. I guess that is what happens with old film off fleabay. I still have some rolls to shoot so who knows. I am splitting the cassettes though and I plan on loading them with Microfilm if I ever get around to it. Or slitting some 35mm down. I do have a slitter for 16mm but I haven't used it yet. I get around to things eventually. At some point maybe I'll have an image to post here.....

By the way, if you are planning on reloading cassettes, Fuji is the hardest to split, Kodak is second and Walgreens/Agfa practically falls apart. That is a small data set though so your milage may be different.

 

[Huss]

I bought a stash of 110 film a year and a half ago. I got it for the unexposed rolls, but there were exposed rolls too. I finally got around to mixing up chems a couple weeks ago to try to tackle the mound of undeveloped color film I have. So far with some rolls developed not a single image on any of them. Film looks like it is heat roached. I guess that is what happens with old film off fleabay. I still have some rolls to shoot so who knows. I am splitting the cassettes though and I plan on loading them with Microfilm if I ever get around to it. Or slitting some 35mm down. I do have a slitter for 16mm but I haven't used it yet. I get around to things eventually. At some point maybe I'll have an image to post here.....

By the way, if you are planning on reloading cassettes, Fuji is the hardest to split, Kodak is second and Walgreens/Agfa practically falls apart. That is a small data set though so your milage may be different.

Yeah, when I broke open my Fuji Superia cassette to see why it was binding, it pretty much destroyed it.

 

[ciniframe]

Someone who knows how to design/copy stuff for a 3D printer could probably find a ready market for a designed to be reloaded 110 cartridge. Of course, filling a demand and actually charging enough to pay for costs are not always possible.

 

[Huss]

Someone who knows how to design/copy stuff for a 3D printer could probably find a ready market for a designed to be reloaded 110 cartridge. Of course, filling a demand and actually charging enough to pay for costs are not always possible.

Big picture - how many people actually reload 110 film? It's a small enough market for reloading 35mm film, and 110 photography is so niche compared to that.
With Lomo offering a 3 pack for $20, it really isnt expensive for the average user.

I do understand being able to load the film stock that you want, but still that is a minuscule market.

 

[Huss]

Pentax Auto 110, Fukkatsu

 

[Donald Qualls]

Of course, filling a demand and actually charging enough to pay for costs are not always possible.

Big picture - how many people actually reload 110 film? It's a small enough market for reloading 35mm film, and 110 photography is so niche compared to that.

Reloadable 110 cartridges aren't competing against loaded film. They're for folks who want to shoot something other than the two or three emulsions available. A well designed 3D printed or resin cast cartridge will last long enough that paying $20 each isn't a big deal (especially if they're made to work with unperfed film and no backing paper, for those cameras that will operate that way). For those who want to shoot, for instance, XP2 Super, or Foma R100, or Ektachrome (two of which have never been available in 110), a reloadable cartridge that costs as much as three loaded ones is a bargain. If you had a choice of half a dozen emulsions in 110 cartridges, that might be another story.

A good example is 127 film. You can still buy it (or could this time last year) -- in two emulsions, with quality suggesting it was hand rolled. Or you can slit your own from 120 and use any emulsion available on the bigger spools, get longer rolls, with good backing paper, and yes, you have to reroll it yourself -- but that's not very difficult (and at least one 3D printed slitter handles the first transfer of two as part of the slitting operation). How long until 110 is like 828 -- no longer available at all (and not even empty cartridges like the spools you find in used roll film cameras)? If we don't have reloadable cartridges at that point, when the old stock film is either gone or too old to give good images, we're all reloading whether we want to or not -- or these nice little pocket cameras become paperweights.

 

[ciniframe]

Well, the reason I mentioned a reloadable cartridge was that a couple of posters talked about which cartridge was easiest to take apart. So I surmised by that there was at least some interest.
With other, older 16mm formats then of course reloading is not optional, if we want to shoot them we have to reload. But I wonder how many 110 cameras would come out of hiding if a reloadable cartridge was available. If there was such a item I'd be tempted to look for a Kodak Ektramax.

 

[Huss]

.. If you had a choice of half a dozen emulsions in 110 cartridges, that might be another story...

You do. Check out lomography.com.

 

[Cholentpot]

Pentax Auto110, Fukkatsu 400, 24mm 2.8 and no distortion whatsoever.

What do you think compared to the Rollei?

 

[ciniframe]

Does anyone by chance know how long a 24 exposure roll of 110 film is. Just curious. If you do your own developing could you get out a tape and measure it for me.
Thanks in advance,

 

[ciniframe]

Big picture - how many people actually reload 110 film? It's a small enough market for reloading 35mm film, and 110 photography is so niche compared to that.
With Lomo offering a 3 pack for $20, it really isnt expensive for the average user.

I do understand being able to load the film stock that you want, but still that is a minuscule market.

Yes, definitely a small market. I believe something like this would have to be a ‘passion project’. A person wants the item for their own use and shares with others of like mind, at least partially offsetting the costs involved. Not a viable business venture to pay the bills.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Check out lomography.com.

Okay, they have four emulsions (not counting the Purple and "Lobster" redscale, which are a little too lomographic for me): Metropolis (fast B&W), Orca (ISO 100 B&W), Tiger (ISO 200 color negative) and Peacock (ISO 100 E-6 marked for cross-process in C-41). Given what 110 cameras that even adjust for film speed can sense (100 or 400), this may pretty well cover the needs, but some of us would like the option to shoot something else.

FWIW, @ciniframe a "passion project" need not be anything more than "I want this" -- and when it's done, make the CAD files available for others to print their own. As of next weekend (allowing time for assembly and calibration) I'll be in the "can print in plastic" class. Sadly, the gear in a 110 cartridge probably can't be printed on common filament printers -- tooth pitch is too fine to be confident of good print quality -- so that might have to be a resin printed part, or require use of a smaller than normal nozzle and extra fine slices (both of which increase print time so much (~8x to double both horizontal and vertical resolution -- typical small part would go from 20-30 minutes to 3+ hours -- that they aren't practical for everything, so there'd be a nozzle change before and after printing that gear or a sheet of them).

Does anyone by chance know how long a 24 exposure roll of 110 film is. Just curious. If you do your own developing could you get out a tape and measure it for me.
Thanks in advance,

The image area is 24 inches (~60 cm); perfs are about 24mm apart. Measured from a roll of processed Orca I had in reach. Not sure how much was cut off at head and tail, likely 2-3 inches at the head and an inch or more at the tail.

 

[xya]

a strip of lomography tiger is about 76 cm (30 inches) in total, there is about 5cm leader and about 8.5 cm at the end which are not used. which makes about 62 cm of image area, same as donald says...

 

[Huss]

Does anyone by chance know how long a 24 exposure roll of 110 film is. Just curious. If you do your own developing could you get out a tape and measure it for me.
Thanks in advance,

If you asked this question 2 days ago I would have been able to tell you, as I broke one open and could have measured it!

 

[Huss]

What do you think compared to the Rollei?

The Rollei Tessar lens is sharper than the 24mm 2.8 that I have so far used on the Pentax. I have not yet tried the other lenses.
In ways the Rollei is easier (and much quicker) to focus as the reference scale in the VF is very easy to use, while with the Pentax you have to use the split image bit, as the rest of the VF while very clear, is not useful to determine focus.
But I think that these cameras have a really decent DOF so maybe I'm am being too critical about that.

The Rollei is definitely way better built - no comparison. The Pentax is a lightweight little plastic thing, that has a fragile feeling film advance. The Rollei feels solid.
Then again, sometimes these impressions can be misleading! Who knows which one is actually better built? Making something out of metal tends to automatically give the impression that it is better!
The Rollei has a really nice touch where when you open the back, it slightly levers out the film cartridge so it is easy to remove. The Pentax can be fiddly, requiring shaking etc.

I will say that the Pentax is crazy fun to use, and highly recommend getting one. Same for the Rollei. The issues that I have experienced (and read about) with the Pentax locking up were completely fixed by spraying electronic contact cleaner at the shutter button area, and the mechanical flash sync switch. So I wouldn't let that put you off.

 

[Cholentpot]

The Rollei Tessar lens is sharper than the 24mm 2.8 that I have so far used on the Pentax. I have not yet tried the other lenses.
In ways the Rollei is easier (and much quicker) to focus as the reference scale in the VF is very easy to use, while with the Pentax you have to use the split image bit, as the rest of the VF while very clear, is not useful to determine focus.
But I think that these cameras have a really decent DOF so maybe I'm am being too critical about that.

The Rollei is definitely way better built - no comparison. The Pentax is a lightweight little plastic thing, that has a fragile feeling film advance. The Rollei feels solid.
Then again, sometimes these impressions can be misleading! Who knows which one is actually better built? Making something out of metal tends to automatically give the impression that it is better!
The Rollei has a really nice touch where when you open the back, it slightly levers out the film cartridge so it is easy to remove. The Pentax can be fiddly, requiring shaking etc.

I will say that the Pentax is crazy fun to use, and highly recommend getting one. Same for the Rollei. The issues that I have experienced (and read about) with the Pentax locking up were completely fixed by spraying electronic contact cleaner at the shutter button area, and the mechanical flash sync switch. So I wouldn't let that put you off.

I have and use the Pentax. It's one of the most fun cameras to use from my stable. The Pen F may be a close tie that but it's still in honeymoon phase for me. I've got the Ebay alert set up for a Rollei. Hope to snag one at some point but for now the prices have gone cocoa puffs for my tastes. I think I like the double stroke, it makes the camera more using use.

 

[ciniframe]

I thought about the gear also. Wonder if a 3d printed cartridge could use gears harvested from regular 110 cartridges. Since it seems that many cartridges are destroyed opening them then perhaps the gear could at least be saved.
Of course, when Kodak introduced the 110 cartridge they never intended for them to be used more than once. So, perhaps being made out of plastic it would not last very many cycles anyway.
To Huss, about the viability of reloading.....well it’s in our blood you see. Even if myself or Donald, or other folks, had plenty of money to spend on factory film I’m willing to bet we would still look for ways to save money or use some film that was not available from Lomography.
Of course while I dream you actually go out and take photographs......what’s up with that.

 

[Cholentpot]

I thought about the gear also. Wonder if a 3d printed cartridge could use gears harvested from regular 110 cartridges. Since it seems that many cartridges are destroyed opening them then perhaps the gear could at least be saved.
Of course, when Kodak introduced the 110 cartridge they never intended for them to be used more than once. So, perhaps being made out of plastic it would not last very many cycles anyway.
To Huss, about the viability of reloading.....well it’s in our blood you see. Even if myself or Donald, or other folks, had plenty of money to spend on factory film I’m willing to bet we would still look for ways to save money or use some film that was not available from Lomography.
Of course while I dream you actually go out and take photographs......what’s up with that.

It's the challenge.

Pentax Auto, Kodak BW400CN

 

[Huss]

Pentax Auto110, 24mm 2.8, Fuji Superia 200 expired 2006.

It is such a bummer this film has been long discontinued as it is quite a bit sharper than Lomo Tiger, and I find the colours a little nicer.

 

[Huss]

 

[Huss]

Pentax Auto110, 24mm 2.8, Lomo Tiger

 

[Cholentpot]

Auto 110 is pretty sharp there.

Pentax Auto, BW400CN

 

[Huss]

It's interesting, the sharpness with the 24mm lens seems to vary depending on subject distance BUT I think it is acceptable at all distances. Very happy with the results and the Fuji Superia 200 film definitely helps.

 

[Huss]

Pentax Auto110, 24mm 2.8, Fuji Superia 200 expired 2006