6 years after, how is the longevity of the new HC-110?

[Helinophoto]

Hi

It should now be plenty of examples of people using opened and half-empty bottles of the new HC-110 formula.

I refrained from buying it last year, when I had to replace my (thicker) HC-110, as I was finally able to finish the bottle.
Seeing how much less viscous it was just put me off, it is expensive (per bottle), and if it doesn't hold up the way the old stuff did, then it is a high risk of throwing money out the window. I really don't shoot that much, not enough to kill a bottle in a year, with a typical working strength at 1:32 (Dil B).

In the meantime, I have switched to Ilfotec HC, which has a proven track record, similar to the thicker HC-110 (at concentrate, from what I could find online).

What are your experiences with the "new" Kodak HC-110, 6 years down the line?

Why did they changed something that works and have been working since forever I wonder, it seems downright stupid, unless there is some economical motive here (shorter shelf life, more dev per film or something else).

 

[relistan]

Why did they changed something that works and have been working since forever I wonder, it seems downright stupid, unless there is some economical motive here (shorter shelf life, more dev per film or something else).

It was expensive to produce, using chemicals to replace sulfite that are not otherwise commonly used and require specialized equipment. Tetenal was the last company making it for Kodak, and they went bankrupt (a few times, it's a sad saga). The replacement was to allow more standard production processes and were cheaper and required less specialized equipment.

 

[Helinophoto]

Wow, I almost cried out "Tetenal is bankrupt (again)???", I think I am out of touch. =D- Well, that explains why I haven't seen any Tetenal color dev kits in stock in a while.

I see, so they lost the supplier for some core materials, then it makes sense to try to create something to hold onto the flag into the future.
I thought it was just some slick move to make something less reliable (from a longevity standpoint), to increase sales....a bottle of HC-110 in my house really lasted for years. (especially combined with 50% of all films developed in Rodinal).
Was an interesting discussion on reddit about the compounds they consist of (new and old).

Clear difference:


But, after 6 years, I was hoping someone had some experience letting the concentrate sit for a couple of years, and if it was still alive and kicking, hopefully someone here can share their experience, we will see.

 

[MattKing]

If you check the website for Photo Systems, who are the manufacturer and new holder of the license to distribute and market Kodak branded photo chemicals, you will discover that they are in the midst of retiring the name HC-110:

It will be interesting to see how much resistance they will encounter.
Photo Systems has engaged Cinestill to handle world-wide distribution. Cinestill appears to be trying to find local distribution partners for local markets outside the US.

Here is the link to the Photo Systems site: https://kodak.photosys.com/

 

[Helinophoto]

If you check the website for Photo Systems, who are the manufacturer and new holder of the license to distribute and market Kodak branded photo chemicals, you will discover that they are in the midst of retiring the name HC-110:
View attachment 388529

It will be interesting to see how much resistance they will encounter.
Photo Systems has engaged Cinestill to handle world-wide distribution. Cinestill appears to be trying to find local distribution partners for local markets outside the US.

Here is the link to the Photo Systems site: https://kodak.photosys.com/

Hm, I wonder what that means, perhaps a new developer entirely, seeing they are unable to recreate the original maple syrup one.
Then they can also probably get away from the expectations of a "forever lasting developer", like HC-110 was.
It makes sense though, no hurt feelings here really, I am only miffed that HC-110 (the good old one) will probably never come back.
And this new developer will be interesting to follow for sure, thanks for the link

 

[MattKing]

They were the actual manufacture for Kodak Alaris (post Tetenal bankruptcy) and then for Sino Promise - at least for the portion of the worldwide product labelled as "Made in USA".
And that changed formulation was always designed to give users the same results, when reasonably fresh, as the traditional HC-110.
Even traditional HC-110 wasn't actually designed to have as long shelf life as it turned out to have - that was merely an accidental side effect of it being designed for reasonably long shelf life.

 

[OrientPoint]

If you check the website for Photo Systems, who are the manufacturer and new holder of the license to distribute and market Kodak branded photo chemicals, you will discover that they are in the midst of retiring the name HC-110:

That's a pretty catchy name they came up with...

But, after 6 years, I was hoping someone had some experience letting the concentrate sit for a couple of years, and if it was still alive and kicking, hopefully someone here can share their experience, we will see.

I bought some mildly expired bottles of the new-formula HC-110 at a discount three years ago. I've had one bottle sitting around in my darkroom with < 100ml in it for at least a year. I developed a couple of rolls of film in it those dregs just the other day (dilution B), wondering all the way through if I was making a huge mistake. Thankfully the rolls came out fine. So I guess it does hold up reasonably well. Not exactly scientific, but it's a data point of sorts I guess.

 

[MattKing]

That's a pretty catchy name they came up with...

I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that that was the project working name when Kodak came up with HC-110 in the first place

 

[Ben Hutcherson]

I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that that was the project working name when Kodak came up with HC-110 in the first place

Could "Highly Concentrated" be what HC in HC-110 stands for?

 

[logan2z]

I gave up on Kodak's HC-110 a while back since it seems to always be in flux. I started using Legacy Pro L110 instead and it seems to work exactly the same - same dilutions and developing times yield the same results. It has the consistency of water just like the most recent HC-110 and I've only had the bottle open for a few months (decanted into smaller amber glass bottles), but so far it seems to be going strong. No idea how long it will last, but it's not that expensive so if/when it dies I'll just dump it and buy another bottle.

 

[MattKing]

I gave up on Kodak's HC-110 a while back since it seems to always be in flux. I started using Legacy Pro L110 instead and it seems to work exactly the same - same dilutions and developing times yield the same results. It has the consistency of water just like the most recent HC-110 and I've only had the bottle open for a few months (decanted into smaller amber glass bottles), but so far it seems to be going strong. No idea how long it will last, but it's not that expensive so if/when it dies I'll just dump it and buy another bottle.

And it is most likely made by Photo Systems too
Won't likely to be be distributed worldwide though.

 

[Xylo]

I wonder if Ilfotec HC couldn't be a substitute for the old HC-110?

 

[lamerko]

I guess there's no chance the old formula will return to the market, but Fotoimpex sells the new formula in 500 ml bottles under its own name.

 

[Paul Howell]

I use an bottle of the reformulated HC 110, different formula but same working characteristics as the old version. I have no idea how long it will last, been using this bottle for past 2 years. I guess just like Edwal FG7, once some of the base chemistry is no longer available or available at a reasonable cost reformulation was in the cards. In Edwal case, they must have not been selling enough of it to make it worth their while to reformulate.

 

[OrientPoint]

I still have an unopened bottle of the old style HC-110. I am going to keep it unopened until 2060, at which time I'll post here asking if I can still use it

 

[logan2z]

And it is most likely made by Photo Systems too

Could be I'll have to take a look at the fine print on the bottle and see if it mentions Photo Systems.

 

[MattKing]

Could be I'll have to take a look at the fine print on the bottle and see if it mentions Photo Systems.

I'd be surprised if the manufacturer is identified. That rarely happens.
I think this is like Arista brand products. They are a creation of the distribution arm of Freestyle Photographic, who get contract manufacturers to make up different products for them.

 

[MattKing]

And from 2.5 years ago, I quote myself
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/legacypro-eco-pro-who-are-they.193013/#post-2568325

 

[abruzzi]

about 3-4 years ago B&H was selling cheap expired HC-110. For some reason they let me buy two bottles (they don't don't let me buy fresh HC-110 because of shipping issues.) Both sat unopened for a bit, but 1.5-2 years ago the developer in one of the bottles turned dark. So I opened that one and started using it. I'm halfway through the bottle and it still works exactly as expected. The other bottle hasn't turned dark.

 

[VoodooXT]

I have an unopened bottle of Sino Promise HC-110 that I bought during the beginning of the pandemic. It looks like it might've gotten darker in the bottle and there are more crystals at the bottom but I'm sure it still works fine.

 

[cmacd123]

And it is most likely made by Photo Systems too
Won't likely to be be distributed worldwide though.

when L110 came out, the MSDS was prepared by Photo Systems Inc. Last couple of times I tried to buy HC-110 from B&H Photo, they would not ship HC-110 but would ship L110. perhaps some size rule as the L110 cones in a 16US fl Oz bottle, while the Kodak Brand is in a 1 L botle, BUT B&W was happy to send me three Bottles of the L-110, (Ie MOST than a Litre)

 

[chuckroast]

Hi

It should now be plenty of examples of people using opened and half-empty bottles of the new HC-110 formula.

I refrained from buying it last year, when I had to replace my (thicker) HC-110, as I was finally able to finish the bottle.
Seeing how much less viscous it was just put me off, it is expensive (per bottle), and if it doesn't hold up the way the old stuff did, then it is a high risk of throwing money out the window. I really don't shoot that much, not enough to kill a bottle in a year, with a typical working strength at 1:32 (Dil B).

In the meantime, I have switched to Ilfotec HC, which has a proven track record, similar to the thicker HC-110 (at concentrate, from what I could find online).

What are your experiences with the "new" Kodak HC-110, 6 years down the line?

Why did they changed something that works and have been working since forever I wonder, it seems downright stupid, unless there is some economical motive here (shorter shelf life, more dev per film or something else).

I was a long time user of the original HC-110 and still have some here. But I switched to PMK Pyro and Pyrocat-HDC and never looked back. Pyrocat does everything HC-110 did better and cheaper. For some edge cases, I still use D-76, DK-50, and D-23, but that's fairly rare.

HC-110 - it is rumored - was created for high volume photo processing shops as a drop in replacement for D-76. For the volumes any of us likely use, it makes no sense to keep chasing what is now a largely defunct formula. Pyrocat will give you comparable acutance, well managed highlights, somewhat better effective EI, and better grain masking.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it, HC-110 was developed to be a replacement for a number of different developers, including some developers used in some lithographic processes. It was designed with the ability to exhibit characteristics that changed predictably with changes in dilution. Thus, it could be sold to commercial operations, who could then replace several products with a single, easy to store and handle product that was always ready on the shelf.

 

[Steven Lee]

@chuckroast Sometimes it's not about the best possible image quality (we have digital for that). The HC family adds a certain mood to an image which I can't quite explain or even describe, especially noticeable with ISO 400 films and stormy/gloomy weather. That's why I keep using Ilfotec HC alongside Xtol.

 

[Disconnekt]

I gave up on Kodak's HC-110 a while back since it seems to always be in flux. I started using Legacy Pro L110 instead and it seems to work exactly the same - same dilutions and developing times yield the same results. It has the consistency of water just like the most recent HC-110 and I've only had the bottle open for a few months (decanted into smaller amber glass bottles), but so far it seems to be going strong. No idea how long it will last, but it's not that expensive so if/when it dies I'll just dump it and buy another bottle.

I used L110 about 3-ish years ago. It took ~6 months for it to turn a light caramel color & about a year for a small amount of crystals to start showing up, didn't see any changes to the film. It took me ~1.5 years to finish the bottle.


As far as the "longevity" of the new stuff of HC110, its pretty much a giant mix of "who knows" & a long waiting of people reporting their findings/experience with it over time