Back in June 2018, the Ferrania Folks hoped to be in continuous production by Fall

[Nzoomed]

Let me repeat: I shall buy Ferraniachrome rather than Ektachrome as long as it’s cheaper, regardless of colour rendition. Rochester doesn’t even offer 16mm Ektachrome perforated both edges although it was the Eastman-Kodak Company that had introduced the 16mm film format, that sold the Ciné-Kodak Special camera which is designed to laterally guide 2R stock by cone-head pins in the film canal, and that had introduced the Double-Eight film system.

View attachment 227041

Its very possible that Wittner-Cinetec will likely perforate the stuff and respool it if you ever need double perf

 

[Nzoomed]

I guess Dave Heard, they posted "A very short update with some random scenes from the factory at the beginning of July." on facebook. seems to show the water filtration and Boiler and also some people looking at a coating test. Hopefull they will chime in.

(post is Pinned on the page at https://www.facebook.com/filmferrania/ for those who do facebook.)

as posted on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1150822525976436752

Im pretty excited watching that last video clip, ending with the words "READY" at the end! Fingers crossed we will see another update that (colour)film is now being coated!

 

[faberryman]

Im pretty excited watching that last video clip, ending with the words "READY" at the end! Fingers crossed we will see another update that (colour) film is now being coated!

Hope springs eternal.

 

[warden]

I guess Dave Heard, they posted "A very short update with some random scenes from the factory at the beginning of July." on facebook. seems to show the water filtration and Boiler and also some people looking at a coating test. Hopefull they will chime in.

(post is Pinned on the page at https://www.facebook.com/filmferrania/ for those who do facebook.)

as posted on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1150822525976436752

It's cool to see the factory making noise and motion!

 

[Kino]

I assume that they have learned in the past, the more you update, the louder the complaints, so they have started instead spending that time working on their processes.

Just my speculation...

 

[twelvetone12]

You know what? You are right, silence sometimes is better.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

My apologies, but i could never really follow this thread.....
Could ask a couple of questions.?
Just generally speaking -

1. What films had Ferrannia hoped to be producing by now.?

2. Is it mostly the emulsion(s) that are still giving them trouble.?
thank you

Happy to answer!

#1 - It's a very very long story, but suffice to say that our best-laid plans in 2014 got completely blown out of the water by mid-2015 and got further torpedoed on at least two other occasions by forces out of our direct control.
If you were to check my sales projections spreadsheet back in 2014 (when we had no intention of producing B&W film) - by 2019, we would have E6 color film in at least 3 speeds each and in 135, 120 and 4x5 formats and our first round of C41 in 135 format. Plus Super 8 and 16mm cine film. This is of course what we HOPED to be making by now based on everything we knew in 2014. Sure, it was 100% speculation - but that speculation was based on what we believed to be achievable goals.

#2 - The emulsions are actually the least of our problems. We have tons (literally) of documentation inherited from 3M and so making the emulsions is really only complicated by the availability of the original materials in those "recipes" - and to a smaller degree, the equipment that is available to us. Our problems have been almost completely infrastructural - and since we don't (yet) own the building, infrastructural fixes must be done by the Italian government (our landlord).

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'll get to them eventually.

 

[baachitraka]

1) Do we see any films from Ferrannia in the near future? B/W or Color?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

The real question is....do Film Ferrania have someone on staff who does their web design or do they pay someone every time they change it? And would updating the page really be a good use of their limited resources?
As I understand it, the original plan was that they'd have a window of time in which they could use the last batch of extant chemicals etc. to produce a run of Ferrania Chrome (Scotch Chrome 100). This of course was before Kodak reintroduced Ektachrome and when there was fear that Fuji might pull it's chrome films. Ferrania planned to produce this in 135, super 8 and 16mm. However due to unforeseen problems with the building and the Italian government shutting off the power supply that small window of opportunity passed. Hence P30 Alpha was the first film they actually coated. Though I thought the problems which lead to some P30 being rejected was as much to do with the company they engaged to do the finishing processes as the Ferrania building and facilities. Ergo they took the decision not to offer any more film for sale until they can get their finishing machinery fully working and go from raw materials to complete, packaged product under their own roof - without relying on another company to do the finishing/converting. Then the Italian governmen did more work on the building which may ultimately be positive (ie improvements) but it meant the Ferrania people couldn't actually do anything much.
As they had a history of saying "We think we'll be in a position to sell film on Date X" so many times only to find the government shut down the building or cut off the power or built a highway through the campus.....they're not making further predictions....which is understandable. Though you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

This is one of the more succinct and accurate descriptions of the last several years I have seen so far. Well done!

Two small notes: Kodak and Fuji's actions have had, and continue to have, very little influence on our decisions. We simply don't have the luxury to worry about anyone but ourselves.
Also, the decision we took last year was not as much about our finishing machines as it was about getting a thousand small details about the factory itself fixed or worked-around or otherwise remedied. Much of this work we have known about since the beginning and it was always our plan to make these updates while production was going on - but that proved to be quite impossible.

By the time sales restart, our 120 film (yes!) will be entirely in-house. 135 is going to take us a bit longer, because the machinery is exponentially more complicated, and we do already have a partner for 135 finishing for the short term.

To answer the first question: I am the one responsible for almost ALL outward-facing stuff you see on the Internet. Nicola makes most of the photos and videos and we work together to title them - but the website(s), social channels, this post and almost every English-language thing you've ever seen about our company has been written, designed or otherwise touched by me.

The issues with the websites are fixed now. I totally agree that leaving these things unfixed was unprofessional (as someone else opined).
The only thing I can say in my defense is that if you were to see the traffic on the FAQ page, you would probably decide, like I did, that keeping it updated was not a priority.

And yes, we have learned from the "damned if we do, damned if we don't" thing.
Nicola and I decided months ago that until we have a product to promote, most of the rest of it was moot.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I don't wish to be negative (no pun) about our friends at Ferrania but after watching the Ilford factory video and then watching the videos from Ferrania........ well..............





http://www.filmferrania.it/news-articles/2019/the-workshop

Well what?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

As they have stated many, many times.....the initial window to produce E6 from the last remaining lot of chemicals and raw materials was lost.....but the long term goal is still to produce E6 film. And B&W film. And C41 film.

And for the last time, the text about the shop isn't in the HTML code of that page so it's scripted and coming from elsewhere. It's not a matter of simply replacing that text in the code for the relevant page *because it is not in the source for that page*.

Yes I am tired and grumpy. But having to repeat things multiple times is tiring. Probably why Dave Bias doesn't post here any more.

The main site is on the Squarespace platform and their source is really tough to read. On purpose, I think.
The reasons I have been absent from posting have primarily been personal and also because of the things I said in the previous reply.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Let me repeat: I shall buy Ferraniachrome rather than Ektachrome as long as it’s cheaper, regardless of colour rendition.

If you think that we have any chance of being cheaper than the largest film manufacturer in the world, then I really don't know what to tell you except "Best Wishes!"

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I guess my question is this: Has Ferrania pretty much abandoned plans to produce an E6 product?

No we have not, although yes, we were forced to abandon the Ferraniachrome project that was to be delivered to Kickstarters. We said so way back in Feb 2016 in a post to Backers and also on our website.

What I really don't understand is why anyone would think we are in this business to make only one film emulsion, ever...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Ferrania! You should do some updating to your website! Especially the "SHOP" page... Early 2019 is OVER...

I believe another forum member mentioned this earlier as well... and it seems like something that would be really easy to fix for whoever manages the website...

It is fixed and I do apologize to you and a few others who seem very very upset by my laxity.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

It says a lot when the updates about Ferrania’s progress are so unbearably exciting that a conversation about refurbished 70mm projectors ensues. Lol.

Again, my apologies if we have not been entertaining enough to keep this thread on topic.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I guess Dave Heard, they posted "A very short update with some random scenes from the factory at the beginning of July." on facebook. seems to show the water filtration and Boiler and also some people looking at a coating test. Hopefull they will chime in.

(post is Pinned on the page at https://www.facebook.com/filmferrania/ for those who do facebook.)

as posted on Twitter.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1150822525976436752

It's not so much that I "heard" the complaints here as much as it was me complaining to Nicola for about two months that we needed to do an update and Nicola finally finding the time to make one (such as it is).

 

[FILM Ferrania]

1) Do we see any films from Ferrannia in the near future? B/W or Color?

Yes. B&W.

 

[GarageBoy]

Well what?

Yeah, ones an established factory, and one's a work in progress...

 

[FILM Ferrania]

The reason that many of us contributed to the kickstarter was for the production of color film. We understood that along the way the Ferrania equipment had to be moved and refurbished so the production of color film could happen. But the intent at the end of the day was to produce color film.

This is most certainly how many people interpreted the video and text of our campaign.
But that is not, in fact, what we said in the campaign - nor why we did the Kickstarter in the first place.

We tried to make it clear that the purchase of the equipment and the production of a batch of chrome film were completely separate things.
One did not rely on the other. One was not the product of the other.

I certainly failed to make this distinction 100% clear to every one of our 5500+ Backers.
Maybe someone else could have done better? Probably.
But that someone didn't step up when the opportunity arose, so everybody got stuck with me.

 

[CMoore]

Happy to answer!

#1 - It's a very very long story, but suffice to say that our best-laid plans in 2014 got completely blown out of the water by mid-2015 and got further torpedoed on at least two other occasions by forces out of our direct control.
If you were to check my sales projections spreadsheet back in 2014 (when we had no intention of producing B&W film) - by 2019, we would have E6 color film in at least 3 speeds each and in 135, 120 and 4x5 formats and our first round of C41 in 135 format. Plus Super 8 and 16mm cine film. This is of course what we HOPED to be making by now based on everything we knew in 2014. Sure, it was 100% speculation - but that speculation was based on what we believed to be achievable goals.

#2 - The emulsions are actually the least of our problems. We have tons (literally) of documentation inherited from 3M and so making the emulsions is really only complicated by the availability of the original materials in those "recipes" - and to a smaller degree, the equipment that is available to us. Our problems have been almost completely infrastructural - and since we don't (yet) own the building, infrastructural fixes must be done by the Italian government (our landlord).

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I'll get to them eventually.

I see... Thank You

Quoting from your response in #2....... "Our problems have been almost completely infrastructural - and since we don't (yet) own the building, infrastructural fixes must be done by the Italian government (our landlord)."

In some ways this MIGHT Be a good thing. At least you Guys/Gals are not struggling with the film base or the emulsion. The problems you DO Have might be an easier fix, although they have not been so far.
I wish you guys all the best.!
It may seem like a Herculean Task at the moment, but we will keep our fingers crossed for you. I truly hope your problems will be resolved very soon.

From the little i have read, and from listening to others......it seems you guys have already put in the Worry, Effort, and Money to be running two or three Successful Companies..!!!
Hang In There My Friends

 

[Cholentpot]

This is one of the more entertaining threads I follow. It has the entire microcosm of the film community contained in it.

Do what you do and crank out that film when you do. I'm enjoying the trip to get there.

 

[cmacd123]

It's not so much that I "heard" the complaints here as much as it was me complaining to Nicola for about two months that we needed to do an update and Nicola finally finding the time to make one (such as it is).

Thank you for passing on to your boss the concerns of the group, and also thank him for the occasional comments on the Facebook P30 Group..

it certainly makes sense to get the entire process running smoothly in B&W where troubleshooting is quite likely more straight forward.

P30 IS a "different" film from other products and so it does add a choice to use. (although my remaining stash is waiting for available back up stock)

and of course, your small Factory is probably our best hope for 16mm Double perf, and Regular 8 colour E6 film in the longer term.

 

[foc]

Well what?

I will briefly explain my comment. I watched the Ilford video and saw what is involved in the making B&W film, you must admit it is a good documentary.
I have also watched the videos on the Ferrania web site.
There was a comment by another poster on another thread Ilford behind the film "I am simply making a humorous comment....... did Film Ferrania watch this before they started the ball rolling"
I am afraid the Ferrania videos and website do not inspire confidence in me.
And it appears to be dragging on so long that I have lost faith in the project.
Please remember there are my own personal views and are not meant to be disrespectful or derogatory to Ferrania.
In fact I wish them well and hope against all odds that they will succeed.

 

[Burninfilm]

No we have not, although yes, we were forced to abandon the Ferraniachrome project that was to be delivered to Kickstarters. We said so way back in Feb 2016 in a post to Backers and also on our website.

What I really don't understand is why anyone would think we are in this business to make only one film emulsion, ever...

Just to be clear, are you saying that all plans have been cancelled to deliver color slide film to the Kickstarter backers? I don’t recall ever seeing that so clearly stated in a public fashion.

 

[cmacd123]

Just to be clear, are you saying that all plans have been cancelled to deliver color slide film to the Kickstarter backers? I don’t recall ever seeing that so clearly stated in a public fashion.

the batch that was planned back in 2015 could not be made. when they got going they made a few batches of P30, and OFFERED to exchange that for the promised film. Although they said if we wait, they may be able to make a better offer later. It is hard to remember back that far.

the P30 was a great learning experience as they found a LOT of things to change to to get the LRF which was built up as a test lab, into a film manufacturing facility.

so we wait, I am trusting that at some time in the future I may get a chance to spend more money on (with a discount) something of value for my contribution. I have certainly had a lot of entertainment following along on this Adventure.... But if you really were expecting hand wrapped slide film, with a custom numbered presentation case. I suspect that you should not hold your breath.

meantime the rest of us will have to cross our fingers and our toes that at least a few of our "special" film dreams may be answered.