blank film, dead Rodinal?

[removedacct2]

I got a 0,5l bottle of Rodinal that had been previously used and is 3/4 full. From someone who wanted to try BW film and home development but decided it's not his stuff. I forgot to ask how long since the bottle was opened. I use D76, HC-110, ID-11 and couple Foma developers, it was first time with Rodinal. The concentrate is dark red/brown, and light brown/yellow diluted 1+50. I shot 2 rolls in 6x9 of Agfapan APX 100, and used the 1+50 Rodinal for 10mn with standard agitation. Result: fully blank film. Means the developer is dead, right? Will throw away the remaining. But then I did believe Rodinal concentrate shelf life is very long. Or?

 

[Anon Ymous]

If you didn't swap developer for fixer, then it's dead. To be perfectly sure, use a piece of scrap film, like a film leader, and develop it in full light. If it doesn't get black in a reasonable amount of time, then it certainly is dead.

 

[john_s]

There seems to be some uncertainty about the various versions of Rodinal over the 130 years of its use, but it seems that its reputation for everlasting life might not be justified in the case of recent incarnations, especially with plastic bottles..

 

[removedacct2]

yes, that's not like HC-110 shelf life....
btw, that's how it looks:

 

[Paul Howell]

The new version HC110 may not last as long as it did. I had a bottle (glass bottle) of Agfa version, was good for over 10 years, I would not trust R09, which I have, more than a couple of years. Reminds to buy a new bottle and toss out the bottle I have.

 

[pentaxuser]

Result: fully blank film. Means the developer is dead, right? Will throw away the remaining. But then I did believe Rodinal concentrate shelf life is very long. Or?

When you say completely blank film do you mean that there are no edge markings as well as no negative images? If there is nothing on the film at all then I suspect you used fixer first. It is not impossible that the Rodinal has died but I would expect some indication of negatives even in exhausted developer.

pentaxuser

 

[Arvee]

I had a 500ml container of RO9 go bad in a couple of years. It doesn't have the shelf life that the original formula has. Looks as though your bottle is at least 2 yrs. old.

 

[pentaxuser]

I had a 500ml container of RO9 go bad in a couple of years. It doesn't have the shelf life that the original formula has. Looks as though your bottle is at least 2 yrs. old.

So this stuff that purports to be Rodinal by another marketing name only has a shelf life that barely equals developers that do not claim longevity? When it went bad can we take it that it has worked OK on the session prior to going bad and going bad means that you has nothing on the film at all i.e. not a trace of images or a trace of edge markings?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Arvee]

Yep to all!

 

[MattKing]

Rodinal has had a number of different (but closely related) forms over many tears, and beeen sold in a number of different bottles.
R09 is definitely one of the versions of Rodinal.
But not all versions of Rodinal, or all packagings of Rodinal, have exhibited the same shelf life.

 

[Arvee]

Rodinal has had a number of different (but closely related) forms over many tears, and beeen sold in a number of different bottles.
R09 is definitely one of the versions of Rodinal.
But not all versions of Rodinal, or all packagings of Rodinal, have exhibited the same shelf life.

IIRC, the original formula incorporates NaOH where RO9 used KOH. I also recall that the Formulary's version also uses KOH. Other than that, I believe all the other ingredients were the same.

 

[MattKing]

It is as clear as mud: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/difference-between-r09-and-rodinal.79668/

 

[Arvee]

It is as clear as mud: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/difference-between-r09-and-rodinal.79668/

Yikes!!

 

[removedacct2]

do you mean that there are no edge markings as well as no negative images? If there is nothing on the film at all then I suspect you used fixer first. It is not impossible that the Rodinal has died but I would expect some indication of negatives even in exhausted developer.

totally blank, no edge markings, so yes the fixer did work alone, because the developer in the first place did nothing
----

anyway, I resolved the mystery: when shaking the bottle there was a noise which I mistaken for the one of a safety cork, but after this I shaked stronger and there's something inside, either stranger or a precipitate. I cut open the bottle and pour through a sieve: huge cristals precipitates:

 

[removedacct2]

also that R09/Rodinal incarnation is the Rollei/Compard one. I buy film and chemicals often from Fotoimpex of Berlin and while I never bought Rodinal before, they list their own version Adox Adonal, which is their rebranding of the Afga Rodinal that they bought years ago.

anyway, i got this bottle from someone who tried home development with one roll and gave up, but I don’t know when and how the bottle was stored.
Still surprised to find this amount of precipitate....

 

[AgX]

The original Rodinal had crystals precipitate too. But that was reported here of having no effect.

Yes, there have been reports on R09 turning ineffective after a few years. Even when being capped with inert gas.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I've used a bottle of Rodinal first opened by myself about 15 years ago a couple of times in the last week with no sign of a lack of activity. - this is however the original Agfa product.

 

[Donald Qualls]

If you want to try Rodinal, and mix your own developers at all, you likely only need to spend around $10 to make your own -- acetaminophen/paracetamol tablets, drain opener lye, and sodium sulfite (plus water, preferably distilled for mixing this). Formulas for "Parodinal" are all over the place. In my personal experience, Parodinal is good for at least six months in an opened, mostly empty bottle, and still works when it's the color you show above -- and yes, it will always have some crystals in the bottom, though not normally that big.

I would normally expect a Rodinal clone to still work at that color -- if you haven't already tossed it, I'd suggest mixing a small amount (1:25, for speed) and dropping in a clip or leader cutoff (even a piece of enlarging paper). You should see some darkening in less than five minutes. Alternatively, a drop of the concentrate, put on a leader/clip, should turn the emulsion black in less than a minute (much less than a minute). If you decide to rebottle your Rodinal after testing, be sure to keep some of those crystals; they're said to be critical to the keeping of the stuff.

 

[R.Gould]

I've used RPO9/one shot that was 5 or 6 years old and it worked fine, These fdays, Firstcall in the UK sell RO9 one shot in what they call soft pak, which makes it easy to keep the air out, but personally speaking | have used the RO9 version for a good few years now and always used it down to the last drop, even with the crystals formed

 

[subsole]

The only "real" Rodinal (sold in some countries as Adox Adonal) :
https://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/rodinal-adonal/

 

[Tom Kershaw]

The only "real" Rodinal (sold in some countries as Adox Adonal) :
https://www.adox.de/Photo/adox-film-developer/rodinal-adonal/

I've also been using the Tetenal Paranol-S developer for a while now that performs similarly to Rodinal but I haven't seen a discussion on how the two compare in composition.

 

[pentaxuser]

anyway, i got this bottle from someone who tried home development with one roll and gave up, but I don’t know when and how the bottle was stored.
Still surprised to find this amount of precipitate....

Based on all the evidence you have an exhausted bottle of RO9. No surprise there I am stating the obvious. If the causes of this are important then the top sentence holds the secrets of cause but within that sentence are too many unknowns to ever discover the real truth unless you can contact the person and he definitely knows and you definitely believe he can be accurate about his answers.

In terms of learning lessons from the experience the safest route appears to be to buy from a recognised stockist such as Fotoimpex, and store it as instructed. Do not buy a Rodinal derivative such as these unless you can use it all within a couple of years to be safe

Of course we have at least one user whose experience has been that 5/6 years old RO9 has been fine and there may be and are likely to be others who just haven't responded with equally satisfactory reports of R09 or other derivatives of the original Rodinal.

The problem on any forum dealing with the "sudden death" of a chemical (usually developer) is that after spending 15 years here my experience is there will almost certainly be at least one forum member who believes that what you describe matches what happened in his case

Then the only 100% safe solution by definition is to not buy that product again

As I am sure you will have decided yourself, the only certain conclusion here is that we will never get to a certain conclusion

pentaxuser

 

[guangong]

When news that Agfa was discontinuing Rodinal I immediately bought 6 bottles...a lifetime supply.. No changes in use detected. Like honey found in some ancient Egyptian tombs, seems to last forever.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I never had any of the original Rodinal go bad on me. I mix Gainer's EZ-Rodinal these days and it is good for at least a few years. That is an all Sodium based formula. If you want to try Rodinal don't be put off by what you discovered in your friend's bottle. Who knows what happened to it when he had it. He might have poured something back into it or left the cap loose for years. Never know.

 

[Paul Howell]

After reading this post I decided to develop a roll of UF 100 from my bottle of R09, then dump the bottle, opened a couple of years ago. I last used this bottle maybe 7 to 10 days ago, not longer than 2 weeks, and behold the crystals had formed. So thick they clogged the bottle opening. I'm pretty sure that when last used there were no crystals.