SO-415 is Technical Pan, no?
Complete Guide to 70mm Film
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This is great to make the knowledge base compiled in one place. I'd like to get some 65mm Vision3 film to 'reload' my 616 film, but I'm not thrilled about needing to buy it by the 1000' roll. It appears the only 'fresh' true 70mm film is Kodak 2383, which is ISO 6 and weird colors due to it being a cinema print film
You can get fresh 70mm from a few places;
- Ilford during ULF, though it’s not really worth it IMO
- Astrum if you order around 200m of film, something a small business or group effort could definitely do reasonably. Maybe an individual could manage if they really wanted too
- Agfa will cut it for you, but you’ll be ordering a master roll, so not really practical unless you cave several hundred people and a 3rd party to pack it
- Kodak might offer it, though it’s not a standard size (even for Aerocolor IV), so again, it would need a huge effort to get any film cut to size.
OP
OP
Thanks! I'm glad you find the site useful. You'll be happy to know that Mercury Works will be offering 100' rolls of 65mm Vision3 stock. I've posted some details on the current Mercury Stereo 12 Kickstarter, since that camera is being offered as a full 70mm kit. We'll offer 70mm 2383 film as well. We're working on getting natural colors from that stock for anyone who wishes to shoot it as a camera negative.
In the future I'm happy to look into a BW option as well, such as the Astrum that MCB18 mentioned. However, personally I do find Ilford's 70mm HP5+ to be very much worth it. Given that excellent stock, and the common availability of really good expired BW stocks (such as Kodak Plus-X, which suffers very little even when expired for decades) for very cheap, I'm not sure there's much of a need for an inexpensive BW stock at the moment, but at some point...
For anyone new to this thread: to be notified about 70mm/65mm stocks/cameras/backs that we release, just sign up for our email list and check "70mm" on the form.
One naive question: which 70mm film holders will take 65mm cine film? Currently I have Hasselblad A70 and Graflex RH-50. Thanks.
Neither were meant to take 65mm stock.
The RH-50 back probably comes the closest, as you don’t need to modify the back to work without type II perfs, and only need a way to make sure the film travels straight through the back, which a couple of shims on the 70mm spools could probably accomplish.
The Hasselblad back will need to be modified to work without type II perforations, but thankfully that is fairly straightforward. You will also need to make shims forcing the film to stay on one side of the back, I believe the top, so that it can engage the transport mechanism.
Either way, you’ll definitely need to make some adjustments and changes to get it to work.
OP
OP
Mercury Works has developed special spools that accept 65mm film. They are inserted in standard 70mm cassettes, replacing the original spools. Any 70mm back can then accept the 65mm film, but as MCB18 noted, the back needs to be able to accept non-perfed film. There's no modification for the RH-50, but the A70 requires the film counter sprocket to be replaced with a rubber wheel, as described on this page. Of course, you may already have done this modification, as it is sensible in almost all cases.
Our 65mm spools center the film. This is no problem with the Mamiya RB 70mm back (once it has been modified to non-perf). I haven't tested the A70 back yet, but expect it to be the same. If it doesn't work reliably, we can make a modified version of our spools that move the film to the top of the frame. Will test this eventually; most of my energy at the moment is going toward the stereo camera and 65mm developing techniques. But either way it will definitely work, with no modification of the back except for the rubber wheel.
Our 100' rolls of 65mm film will come in standard 70mm cans rolled on a special spool we've created. It will work in any 70mm loader (ours, the Alden, etc.). So in short, our 65mm film can be loaded and shot in any back, just like 70mm non-perfed film!
Thank you both for the answers. I really like Vision 3 cine film stocks, and it will be wonderful if I can shoot them in 70mm cassettes and backs.
I could not find this on the "Everything you wanted to know about 70mm film" link, so I'll ask here -- I am not a 70mm user.
Are the perforations for 70mm film the same size, and spacing, and distance from the edge of the film as 65mm film?
Are the perforations for 70mm film the same size, and spacing, and distance from the edge of the film as 65mm film?
No, they are not. This is not my image, but it demonstrates the difference very well. 70mm Aviphot 200 vs 65mm Vision3 500T:
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65mm / 70mm ( motion picture stock ) was originally designed for contact printing, so perforations are in the same position.
Unlike 70mm ( stills ), these perforations are at a wider position ( same distance from the edge as 35mm film ).
Re: 70mm film:
Motion picture perfs are type I.
Stills perfs are type II.
John S
Very nice to hear this. I want to try some (very) bad ideas with 65mm film, but I don't want to sacrifice $1500 and 1000' film for what could be a stupid waste of 15 ft of film.
Its a shame that the other Vision 3 films (50D/250D) require a 16 can minimum order for 65mm.
So 500T it is!
Thanks for this info. So there are really three films here regarding perforations -- 65mm motion picture, 70mm motion picture, and 70mm still picture.
The perforation size and spacing is the same on all, but the position from the edge is closer to the edge on the 70mm still picture film. Is that correct?
How can I find the size of the perforations and the distance to the edge?
OP
OP
Just to clarify, we'll be offering all Vision 3 stocks in easy to use 100' rolls. Mercury Works is working with Kodak on this initiative.
OP
OP
Sure, I'd love to take a look! PM me a link to it?
OP
OP
Well, there are two types of 70mm still picture perfs (Type 1 and Type 2), as well as non-perf, of course.
For motion picture film, 65mm camera negative and 70mm print film both have the same perfs (with the same specs). But the 70mm film is wider, so the perfs are 2.5mm farther from the edge of the film (this extra area is allocated to soundtracks). I'm happy to provide more info, and post it to the site, but am not sure which of the many possible measurements is significant to you. What is it that you're wondering about?
For the purposes of shooting, we just treat it all as non-perf.
Ohhh, nice! Are you allowed to discuss the arrangement? Or is it something you aren’t able to discuss due to confidentiality agreements? Just curious how it works, and if maybe this could keep the price lower.
Sure!
Take my money! 50D will be perfect for rolling into old cameras, and it's such a nice film as well.
Also, for 70mm use it appears that the film cartridges are not easy to come by. Do you have a supply of these?
I just picked up a 70mm back for my Pentax 645.
Thanks for trying to clarify, but now it looks like there are six different film perforations we are talking about.
65mm (still & movie?) -- perforated
65mm still -- unperforated
70mm still -- type 1 perfs, whatever that is
70mm still -- type 2 perfs, whatever that is
70mm still -- unperforated
70mm movie -- type ? perforations
I am not a 65mm or 70mm user, and only trying to figure out what is "out there" -- the size of the perforations, the spacing of the perforations, and the location of the perforations relative to the edge of the film.
Maybe this should be an entirely separate thread -- or perhaps there is a website that deliniates all the details. There ought to be, anyway.
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You are super overthinking this. It is a bit confusing at first, but nothing nearly this complex.
- 65mm film is meant to make raw camera negatives for movies, and was never meant for still photos. It is always perforated with motion picture perforations.
- 70mm film is used for both movies and stills, though they are completely different depending on the application.
- 70mm stills film comes in perforated type II and unperforated.
- Type II perforated film is what most people look for when they want to get into 70mm film, as it is compatible with all 70mm backs. This is what normally came in pre-loaded cassettes.
- Unperforated is used in most long-roll cameras, and was meant to be used in large loads (100, 150, sometimes 300 ft) I’m length. These are less desirable to 70mm shooters due to their incompatibility with some backs.
- Although type I does exist, we don’t care about it because it was a very early iteration of 70mm, and pretty much only saw major use in the early military areal cameras, and the NASA space cameras.
- 70mm for movie prints has the same perforations as 65mm, as it needs to be comparable with print making equipment for the 65/70mm movie workflow. The extra 2.5mm on each side used to be for the soundtrack, but is now just there for compatibility with old equipment.
- 70mm stills film comes in perforated type II and unperforated.
Just bought a roll of Agfa Aviphot Color N400, and I thought I’ll offer 2-3 uncut 220 lengths to you folks first. Maybe no one’s interested, but I thought I’d ask.
With the normal B&W stuff, it is cheap as dirt and there’s plenty, but this stuff is a bit more unique, so I’d feel kinda bad if I didn’t offer any to you guys.
Pricing TBD, maybe I’ll accept trades. This isn’t a super formal offer, just seeing if anybody is interested right now.
With the normal B&W stuff, it is cheap as dirt and there’s plenty, but this stuff is a bit more unique, so I’d feel kinda bad if I didn’t offer any to you guys.
Pricing TBD, maybe I’ll accept trades. This isn’t a super formal offer, just seeing if anybody is interested right now.
If you want to use 70mm film in a 4x5 camera I found this:
Película rodante vintage Beattie-Coleman transet 70 mm posterior 34100 para cámara Graflex 4x5 | eBay
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It should wouldn't be. Although this is not rocket science, finding the information on the size, spacing, and location of the perforations seems a Herculean task. I am not a 65mm or 70mm user, so I can't do it myself.
These details are important when trying to slit the various films down to smaller film formats.
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