Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[cmacd123]

I believe Roberts is the USA distributor for Ilford (Harman), Indianapolis isn't much of a drive

Yes, and AMPLIS is the Canadian Distributor, (who proably mutters under their breath at all the Ilford Stuff that comes into Canada from the States.)

ILFORD PHOTO - Black & White Flims, Photography Paper & Film Chemistry

HARMAN technology Limited, trading as ILFORD PHOTO, is “Passionate about Black and White” and intends to continue this commitment. Visit Ilford Photo Canada for more information. Amplis is the Exclusive Canadian Distributor of ILFORD Photo.

store.amplis.com

 

[Oldwino]

¡Nueva película a color de Harman (Ilford)! — Disparafilm - Fotografía analógica en Español

Ya está aquí! Y el producto misterioso de Harman (fabricante de Ilford), se llama Phoenix! Es película a color de ISO 200 . Te lo contamos todo y te mostramos las primeras imágenes!

www.disparafilm.com

How's everyone's Spanish? Mine's bad enough to probably misunderstand most of this.

 

[tokam]

At this rate we won't break 1500 before this is official.

+1. But an awful lot of electrons have been inconvenienced with the message traffic.

 

[ags2mikon]

Google translate works.

 

[BryanFlnt]

How's everyone's Spanish? Mine's bad enough to probably misunderstand most of this.

Here is what my phone translate is for the first paragraph:

As we told you in this week's Analog News, Harman, the company that makes the Ilford brand film, is going to launch a new color negative film made 100% in the United Kingdom. It will be called Harman Phoenix and it will be ISO 200.

 

[BryanFlnt]

Here is what my phone translate is for the first paragraph:

As we told you in this week's Analog News, Harman, the company that makes the Ilford brand film, is going to launch a new color negative film made 100% in the United Kingdom. It will be called Harman Phoenix and it will be ISO 200.

Also note there is a photo on the web site blog with a QRCode that eeds to https://www.harmanphoto.co.uk/feedback, a currently non-functional website that I assume becomes active Dec 1.

 

[mshchem]

Harman has done a good job of keeping this bottled up. It would be hilarious if they had manufactured the leak and did announce "something completely different!"
Great fun for me.

 

[mshchem]

Cheetos: Cheetos Duster

Cheetos Duster

www.amazon.com

 

[pbromaghin]

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm excited for this. And I quit shooting color 3 years ago.

 

[koraks]

How's everyone's Spanish? Mine's bad enough to probably misunderstand most of this.

Google Translate does a wonderful job, these days.
That page says nothing new. It just reiterates some rumors about collaborations (that Harman has denied). The website is far less informative than any of the 50+ pages of this thread.

 

[Agulliver]

I got the impression that the cards went out to influencers on Instagram, TikTok etc rather than camera stores. I doubt if many of the UK’s camera stores are social media influencers (I live in the UK) and some of the big UK brands are 4x5 / 8x10 cameras or other things where there’s unlikely to be a tie in (e.g, Solarcan)

A few bigger dealers have been sent cards and film...Analogue Wonderland and I think one other UK dealer for sure. But it's no surprise that independent shops haven't been sent any, or been informed. It's likely they're still going to scrabble to obtain supplies of colour film for some time to come.

I really hope I can get a few rolls of Phoenix on December 1....but I also feel comfortable with the knowledge that if I cannot, it will be because it's sold out. And that means Harman's coffers will be that bit more full.

 

[koraks]

I really hope I can get a few rolls of Phoenix on December 1.

I asked if I could get a single roll. At the price point it's going to retail at (probably around €16), that's enough of an experiment for me, for now.

 

[brbo]

15 EUR is not great, but also not bad. It's the same as Adox Color Mission 200.

I never thought that Phoenix would compete on price with Gold 200/ColorPlus 200/Fuji 200.

 

[koraks]

Well, personally, I had hoped that if it were to compete on quality as well as price. In other words, if it wouldn't compete on quality, this would be reflected in price. It now looks like it'll sell at a premium in relation to the objective quality of the project. I can imagine that people are willing to pay a premium because it supports Harman in their R&D efforts and maybe because of special effects, bragging rights etc. In my case, I'm evidently at least willing to pay the premium at least once to see what the buzz is about, but the film will have to offer something useful to me in order to repeat my purchase. I don't see that happening very easily.

 

[Anon Ymous]

In my case, I'm evidently at least willing to pay the premium at least once to see what the buzz is about, but the film will have to offer something useful to me in order to repeat my purchase. I don't see that happening very easily.

I second that. The price point seems to be high for what the competition offers. Let's hope we will not be disappointed.

 

[Rudeofus]

I second that. The price point seems to be high for what the competition offers. Let's hope we will not be disappointed.

The Harman billboard with its funky colors and the description "limited edition" may have a lots of collectors readying their wallets for this film. Once this settles down, prices may go anywhere dependent on actual performance of this film.

 

[Anon Ymous]

The Harman billboard with its funky colors and the description "limited edition" may have a lots of collectors readying their wallets for this film. Once this settles down, prices may go anywhere dependent on actual performance of this film.

Well, I guess you have a point...

 

[brbo]

I second that. The price point seems to be high for what the competition offers. Let's hope we will not be disappointed.

There are many films in that price bracket (around 15 EUR).

If Harman would compete with already perfect(ly boring) Fuji 200/Gold 200/ColorPlus 200 they would have to price Phoenix 200 below their cheapest Ilford BW film. How realistic do you think that is at the moment? I mean they would have to have a film on Kodak's level and a high volume production in place to go at Kodak's biggest film market segment. Seeing what huge price cuts Alaris can afford even with consumer film, this would probably be a suicide.

If they can keep a relatively small but steady supply of Phoenix 200 they can rule the 15 EUR market that wants to distinguish itself from both, bottom priced first class consumer film and Kodak pro films. They'd have to sell 10x as much film at 8-9 EUR price bracket to make as much profit as if they positioned Phoenix in 15 EUR bracket. Are they equipped for that at the moment?

But if people are really expecting 8-EUR-better-than-Gold film from a company's first attempt at colour film... I think they might be disappointed.

 

[koraks]

How realistic do you think that is at the moment?

So that's how we now get back to where we once started, which was my argument why I believed it would be unlikely they'd get into the color business. I didn't see a way to do that successfully, at least not in classic/old-fashioned terms where they would put out a qualitatively competitive product. It may (probably will) work in a "hipster" kind of sense where you pay for the uniqueness of the product, even though its objective quality is not up to par.

 

[Agulliver]

Eh? Last time I checked, which was 10 minutes ago, all the Ilford B&W film except Delta 3200 (and that depends where you buy it) is cheaper than Kodak Gold or Ultramax.

I had expected, or perhaps hoped, for a film priced somewhere between Ilford B&W products and Gold. I do expect teething troubles and improvements. But round about £15 a pop is way more than Color Plus, Gold or Ultramax. I will have to think about it at that price, because while I want to support Harman and also want to experiment....I'm not into bragging rights. "Hey, look at me I got some Phoenix film" isn't my style. Whereas "Hey...so three weeks ago I got a couple of rolls and here's a sample of what I did with them" might be.

I still reckon they must be close....like Adox Mission close....to a product that is competitive in performance. I'd assumed that Harman's superior global distribution would allow for a price break and for sustained availability but it seems that's not among their aims.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Will try to get a couple.

For now people will be willing to pay anything, especially when popular youtubers post their reviews.

Im sure they will fly off the shelves initually, like Ferrania P30

 

[Anon Ymous]

If Harman would compete with already perfect(ly boring) Fuji 200/Gold 200/ColorPlus 200 they would have to price Phoenix 200 below their cheapest Ilford BW film. How realistic do you think that is at the moment?

How realistic do you think it is to provide a technically inferior product, priced at what a technically exceptional product costs? I mean long term, not short term, novelty item kind of thing. 15€/£ is Portra and Ektar territory.

 

[brbo]

Eh? Last time I checked, which was 10 minutes ago, all the Ilford B&W film except Delta 3200 (and that depends where you buy it) is cheaper than Kodak Gold or Ultramax.

I checked it 1 minute ago (do I win?) and a roll of Gold 200 was 9,17 EUR (8,66 if bought in 3-pack) and HP4+ was 8,98 EUR. So, I will reformulate, for Harman to compete with Kodak they would have to price their colour film at no more than 3% more than their cheapest BW film and 15% less than their current chromogenic BW film.

How realistic do you think it is to provide a technically inferior product, priced at what a technically exceptional product costs? I mean long term, not short term, novelty item kind of thing. 15€/£ is Portra and Ektar territory.

15 EUR is also Color Mission 200 and other crazy film territory. Who says that Harman needs to overflow the consumer segment on their first try?

I actually expected the price to be 12,99 EUR, but if I had to bet on either 8 EUR or 16 EUR as @koraks hinted, I'd pick 16 EUR as a much more probable number.

 

[Prest_400]

So that's how we now get back to where we once started, which was my argument why I believed it would be unlikely they'd get into the color business. I didn't see a way to do that successfully, at least not in classic/old-fashioned terms where they would put out a qualitatively competitive product. It may (probably will) work in a "hipster" kind of sense where you pay for the uniqueness of the product, even though its objective quality is not up to par.

How realistic do you think it is to provide a technically inferior product, priced at what a technically exceptional product costs? I mean long term, not short term, novelty item kind of thing. 15€/£ is Portra and Ektar territory.

Let's see how the initial samples are out to be. I love Ilford Harman and support them in B&W, hoping their Color offering can be a good choice with time. But again, as it has been discussed earlier in this forum, manufacturing a Color film of equivalent quality to what Kodak-Fuji offer in the consumer level (Colorplus, Fujicolor c200) is a milestone and quite a big project.
However, this is an interesting market change compared to say pre-2019, seeing that we have now more new entrants in color manufacturing. A still question mark is Fuji's stance in the traditional film market. Kodak and Fuji have the legacy R&D, so it's not fair to compare the new entrants to them.

 

[Agulliver]

Perhaps Bellamy's comment "it's not what you think it is" was correct, if a little misleading. In that most of us concluded it would be a C41 film ISO 200 or 400. Which it is. But we didn't necessarily expect Harman to launch something as a "limited edition" and perhaps a work in progress.