Impossible repairs: Who works on the latest electronic SLRs and digital cameras?

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Andreas Thaler

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In my experience, the range of repairs reported here extends from cameras from the 19th century to around 1990.

Newer devices - and thus the most advanced SLRs for film - are not included.


1.jpg


Nikon's superlative in camera construction from 1996: The Nikon F5



Flagships such as the Nikon F5 and Nikon F6, Canon EOS-1V or the Canon EOS 3 with eye-controlled autofocus obviously seem to be too much of a challenge for DIY repairers.

This also applies to all digital cameras after that.

Has anyone tried to repair such cameras anyway?
 
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Dan Daniel

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I am not certain about Canon, but Nikon in the US can be very difficult to service because of parts. They only sell to authorized service centers, to the point of even auditing such places to make certain that they are not selling parts on to others. There are unofficial 'chop shops' for Nikon camera that buy up broken cameras, strip out all the sub-assemblies, and sell these on to try to get a round this supply problem.

At the same time, many of these cameras were basically lego assemblies. A series of sub-assemblies the get dropped into place and screwed down with minimal skill needed. Almost no possiblity of doing any internal repairs on the sub-assemblies. Now of course some sub-assemblies will need precise positioning and installation, but lots of it is simple plug-n-play swapping of boards, etc.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Almost no possiblity of doing any internal repairs on the sub-assemblies. Now of course some sub-assemblies will need precise positioning and installation, but lots of it is simple plug-n-play swapping of boards, etc.

This is bad news for these high-performance cameras and of course for us, their owners.
 

guangong

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In a recent issue of Drivers Club magazine, collector Jay Leno made this observation: that his 1907 steamer automobile will still be operational long after current electronically computerized cars become inoperable, often because cause of failure is impossible to determine. The same applies to cameras. My 1936 Leica that I have used for almost 50 years will be capable so long as there is 35mm film. An all electronic camera is designed to be dumped, not repaired.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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However, in my experience, problems with electronic components in cameras are very rare, with the exception of electrolytic capacitors. If something doesn't work, it's usually the contacts that are dirty, corroded or cold solder joint that is no longer reliable conductor.

That doesn't surprise me, given the low power loss that occurs in cameras. Currents and voltages are small, so nothing burns down like in devices that are connected to mains voltage.

The mechanical part of newer electronic cameras presents the same challenges as older cameras.

Presumably software problems also play a role in newer cameras?
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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My 1936 Leica that I have used for almost 50 years will be capable so long as there is 35mm film. An all electronic camera is designed to be dumped, not repaired.

This applies as long as you can service this fully mechanical camera yourself and find spare parts if necessary, or someone who is competent in looking after the device and also makes spare parts themselves or is skilled at repairs.

A mechanical camera needs regular care and is subject to greater wear and tear than an electronic one. For example, I have some Minolta XD7 and Canon AE-1 in my closet that don't need any care. Cocking and releasing the shutter once a year, or less, is enough to give you peace of mind.

Electronic cameras can be repaired yourself to a certain extent, even the newer ones are not disposable products, the manufacturer looks after them, but only for a certain period of time.
 
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koraks

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that his 1907 steamer automobile will still be operational long after current electronically computerized cars become inoperable

Yeah, that's sort of argument is often heard, and to an extent, it's true of course.
It's also true that his 1907 steamer offers horrible fuel economy, drive comfort and virtually none of the functionality that we consider basic to an automobile these days. As a daily driver to get to work, virtually the entire Western population would probably opt for an e-bike over the 1907 steamer. At the same time, if you look at the number of interventions needed per 100k miles to keep the automobile running, I'd expect the 1907 steamer to actually not be such a stellar performer compared to today's offering.

Which is to say that it's kind of a moot point and the truth is, as always, kind of complicated. Yes, we can lament over the poor serviceability of much of today's equipment, but we need to keep in mind that there's a price we pay for the complexity that's required to meet the needs of today's marketplace. The naked truth is that overall, we tend to prefer products with high functionality and a brief service life over the opposite. And despite this enormous complexity in even the simplest compliances, if you were to determine the failure rate in relation to this technological complexity, you'd find that reliability overall has gone up in the past century - not just a little, but dramatically so.

Presumably software problems also play a role in newer cameras?

Depends a bit on how you define a 'software problem', but generally speaking, this is not really an issue from a repairs perspective. It's not common to see software become bug-ridden over time while it functioned well initially. If it happens, the underlying defect is in fact a hardware problem - see e.g. the problems with ROMs becoming unreadable in certain Jobo ATL processors. Sorry, I can't think of an equivalent in cameras, because to the best of my knowledge, it simply doesn't exist/hasn't occurred yet.

Currents and voltages are small, so nothing burns down like in devices that are connected to mains voltage.

I've had smoke come out of a Canon EOS1 once. I admit it was a tiny little sliver of smoke - but it was smoke alright.
Everything scales, including electrical faults. Tiny little voltage and tiny little currents can still burn down tiny little components.

As to repairs on high-tech/modern electronic-heavy cameras: I think the major share of faults that you encounter in practice are mechanical faults. Think of the Canon shutter sticky issue in the early EOS series etc. and the T90 repairs you've been undertaking lately on shutter/mirror magnets etc. The battery leakage problems are hard to qualify as an electric fault; they're mostly a special case of user abuse, really - storing away a camera for many years with batteries still in.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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I've had smoke come out of a Canon EOS1 once. I admit it was a tiny little sliver of smoke - but it was smoke alright.
Everything scales, including electrical faults. Tiny little voltage and tiny little currents can still burn down tiny little components.

That's right. If I short-circuit the operating voltage or overload a component by incorrect connection, even a harmless AA battery becomes an ampere champion 😝
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Depends a bit on how you define a 'software problem', but generally speaking, this is not really an issue from a repairs perspective. It's not common to see software become bug-ridden over time while it functioned well initially. If it happens, the underlying defect is in fact a hardware problem - see e.g. the problems with ROMs becoming unreadable in certain Jobo ATL processors.

With newer electronic cameras, I am horrified by the cryptic error messages on the display when something isn't working.

„HELP“ is still meaningful on the Canon T90, but „ERROR 70456“ is completely frustrating.

These error codes would be very useful if you could interpret them.

But will that help you if there are communication problems between two ICs with 128 pins each indicated that way?
 

koraks

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Exactly! It's also important to point out the the smoke from the EOS1 was likely due to me shorting something out during an attempted repair. Evidently, the original problem wasn't fixed by this...but interestingly, I also never noted any new problem as a result of it. I continued to use the camera for a while and ultimately sold it (with the defect being made explicit to the buyer) because I found it too heavy for its volume and too noisy.

„HELP“ is still meaningful on the Canon T90, but „ERROR 70456“ is completely frustrating.
Yet, the latter is more specific and has the potential of helping in diagnosis, provided you have a list of error codes and matching descriptions. The latter is of course always the problem, since this is the kind of documentation the manufacturer generally doesn't release.

But will that help you if there are communication problems between two ICs with 128 pins each indicated that way?
That's an unlikely failure mode IMO. Moreover, if it occurs, it's likely to be caused by physical damage to a cable or a PCB, which is generally visible (although you may have to look closely). If the communication error is purely electrical by nature, the actual root cause is somewhere else.
 

koraks

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Hey, don't make me blush now!

No, it's mostly hobbyist/amateur knowledge, but I guess like anyone, I try to make the most of what I've picked up left and right. Electronics for the most part is a very linear science, by which I mean that you can make sense of it on your own provided you (1) soak up theory and (2) are able to apply logic to problems. Other ingredients are, as always, time, stubbornness and a general disinterest in having a life outside of a lab.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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Hey, don't make me blush now!

No, it's mostly hobbyist/amateur knowledge, but I guess like anyone, I try to make the most of what I've picked up left and right. Electronics for the most part is a very linear science, by which I mean that you can make sense of it on your own provided you (1) soak up theory and (2) are able to apply logic to problems. Other ingredients are, as always, time, stubbornness and a general disinterest in having a life outside of a lab.

My respect.
 

4season

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I have successfully repaired a last-generation Pentax MZ-3, and it was okay but kind of cheaply made.

But even if I were skilled at repairing cameras like Nikon F6, what good would it do me in 2024? I don't need a speedier, more efficient way to burn through scarce and costly rolls of film. F6 was designed in an era when 20-roll "bricks" of film were discounted, and 30m bulk spools of Kodak Ektachrome could be had at modest cost. But today, a single roll of Fujifilm's Velvia costs 25+ USD.
 

Paul Howell

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My late model Minoltas A mount bodies are holding up pretty well, the early A9000s have LED bleed as does my F4. I had a Pentax Z10 that failed due to the nylon gears going bad. I did take it apart, but decided it wasn't worth the effort to source a replacement gear or have the gear scanned and 3 D printed. I expect that the mechinales on my A mount bodies will give way before the electronics. Finding parts for cameras now 30+ years old will become more and more difficult. What will kill analog photography will be lack of cameras. After the push to digital cameras I could find many good cameras for very cheap, as time has gone by so has the supply of used cameras. Hoping that Pentax will keep making cameras including a SLR.
 
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Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

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My late model Minoltas A mount bodies are holding up pretty well, the early A9000s have LED bleed as does my F4.

I don't think there are any Minolta 9000s left without LCD bleeding. But it seems to be limited and the displays are still completely readable.

A more serious problem can occur in the aperture control, the aperture then no longer closes properly, similar to the F4, see


I have three 9000s in good condition and one never used in the original packaging. These are also on my list for a check.

Dirk Münchgesang has taken a closer look at the problems of the Minolta 9000 on APHOG (German), unfortunately the photos of the disassembly are only visible to members:

 
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4season

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If the "LCD bleed" is caused by deterioration of reflective film bonded to the back of the LCD glass, it could possibly be fixed. Not aware of LCDs actually leaking/failing unless the glass is cracked.
 

4season

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Some of the cameras that I might like to try restoring are IMO, too expensive considering the risk involved. This includes:

Minolta TC-1
Contax G2
Minolta CLE
Minolta XD-S

And when I see even sorry-looking Leica M cameras selling for within a few hundred dollars of decent examples, there's no incentive for me to learn how to repair them.
 

beemermark

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I have too many cameras. An authorized dealer on the Nikon page repaired my (heavily) damaged D750. A semi-local mom and pop shop has repaired my Minolta CLE (two), Nikon SP, Nikon F2 and meter and many more. Atlanta Repair has gone though my Bronica SQ-AI, lenses and backs, they gave me estimates for fixing my other Bronica equipment. All of the camera were done at a very reasonable (low) cost.
 

4season

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What‘s wrong with the XD-S?
It's a borderline case, decent looking examples seem to be in the $200+ range (already pretty expensive for me), but can I fix it? Minolta X700 and SRT101 were kind of a PITA.
 
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