My PC-512 Borax Developer

[Andrew O'Neill]

I want to thank Karl for showing use his results and formula for PC-512. I also want to really thank Alan for doing want I wanted to do in the beginning of this thread, and that was using Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) vs Borax. I mixed up a batch of PCM-18 glycol and developed a roll of film out of an old Zeiss folder and must say it worked perfectly using HC-110's 1+47 times. Actually, I used a dilution of 1+50 instead of 1+47. It seems to have a very good balance as to grain and sharpness. Some people think they have to have the sharpest (edge definition) negatives to make an excellent print. I'm not one of them! I like well defined, smooth negatives with good detail and this developer seems to deliver it. At least it did with that roll film folders uncoated Zeiss lens anyway. I might have different results using one of my fancy SMC coated Takumars on my Pentax 67.

+1!

 

[Alan Johnson]

I want to thank Karl for showing use his results and formula for PC-512. I also want to really thank Alan for doing want I wanted to do in the beginning of this thread, and that was using Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) vs Borax. I mixed up a batch of PCM-18 glycol and developed a roll of film out of an old Zeiss folder and must say it worked perfectly using HC-110's 1+47 times. Actually, I used a dilution of 1+50 instead of 1+47. It seems to have a very good balance as to grain and sharpness. Some people think they have to have the sharpest (edge definition) negatives to make an excellent print. I'm not one of them! I like well defined, smooth negatives with good detail and this developer seems to deliver it. At least it did with that roll film folders uncoated Zeiss lens anyway. I might have different results using one of my fancy SMC coated Takumars on my Pentax 67.

Thanks John for this info on PCM18.
I have not done enough testing with HC-110 dilutions and times . I suggest that under sunny conditions for PCM18 use those specified in the massive development chart and for dull conditions maybe develop a bit longer. Nothing special here, this is kind of a standard suggestion for any developer.

For PCM20 under sunny conditions develop a bit less than the MDC time and for dull conditions try the MDC time specified.
I will give this suggestion a try out with my next film, which was Adox HR-50.

 

[relistan]

I want to thank Karl for showing use his results and formula for PC-512. I also want to really thank Alan for doing want I wanted to do in the beginning of this thread, and that was using Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) vs Borax. I mixed up a batch of PCM-18 glycol and developed a roll of film out of an old Zeiss folder and must say it worked perfectly using HC-110's 1+47 times. Actually, I used a dilution of 1+50 instead of 1+47. It seems to have a very good balance as to grain and sharpness. Some people think they have to have the sharpest (edge definition) negatives to make an excellent print. I'm not one of them! I like well defined, smooth negatives with good detail and this developer seems to deliver it. At least it did with that roll film folders uncoated Zeiss lens anyway. I might have different results using one of my fancy SMC coated Takumars on my Pentax 67.

Hey John, glad you got something you like! Glad to have helped make something people are enjoying.

 

[bernard_L]

I am tempted (convenience without compromise on quality).
But, what about that ascorbic acid and the dreaded Fenton reaction. Is it a non-issue in the absence of water? Or?
This was brought up by @albada back in post 124:

My PC-512 Borax Developer

I'll get out for a wander with some Ilford films... weather permitting, of course! Happy Holidays and Merry Christmas!

www.photrio.com

but was not addressed further as far as Iknow.

 

[Alan Johnson]

With a bit of luck it may survive like albada's Mocon, reported in post 299.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I want to thank Karl for showing use his results and formula for PC-512. I also want to really thank Alan for doing want I wanted to do in the beginning of this thread, and that was using Sodium Metaborate (Kodalk) vs Borax. I mixed up a batch of PCM-18 glycol and developed a roll of film out of an old Zeiss folder and must say it worked perfectly using HC-110's 1+47 times. Actually, I used a dilution of 1+50 instead of 1+47. It seems to have a very good balance as to grain and sharpness. Some people think they have to have the sharpest (edge definition) negatives to make an excellent print. I'm not one of them! I like well defined, smooth negatives with good detail and this developer seems to deliver it. At least it did with that roll film folders uncoated Zeiss lens anyway. I might have different results using one of my fancy SMC coated Takumars on my Pentax 67.

John, which film did you use in the Zeiss? Thanks!

 

[John Wiegerink]

John, which film did you use in the Zeiss? Thanks!

Andy, it was an older expired roll of Foma 100 (EI64) I was using to test the old folder out. I'd post the results, but they are up at our cottage. My PCM18 is also up there, but I'm going to mix a new batch for down home here and run a roll of Arista 400 in the camera and look at those results. We'll see how it handles the grain from the Foma 400. I'll scan and post those results when I'm done.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

 

[Alan Johnson]

Only two companies, both in China, appear to offer Diethanolamine Sulfite, ingredient of the former viscous HC-110:

Diethanolamine sulfite | 63149-47-3 suppliers - BuyersGuideChem

Get supplier listing of Diethanolamine sulfite and equal product

www.buyersguidechem.com

It is not listed as having any use outside photographic processing:

Diethanolamine sulfur dioxide - Hazardous Agents | Haz-Map

Diethanolamine sulfur dioxide agent detailed information in Haz-Map database.

haz-map.com

 

[Alan Johnson]

Adox HR-50 has high resolution but also a high contrast in mid-tones:

The best things in life are analog | HR-50 with Speed boost

www.adox.de

To develop this I read off 9m 20C for HC-110 1+63 from the massive development chart and reduced this time by 20% giving 7 min 20C for negatives taken under sun/shade contrast developed in PCM 20 1+63.
This is as per post 377.
The resultant negatives were of rather low density but had the full range of contrast. Here is a scan:



Quite close using HC-110 times.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Adox HR-50 has high resolution but also a high contrast in mid-tones:

The best things in life are analog | HR-50 with Speed boost

www.adox.de

To develop this I read off 9m 20C for HC-110 1+63 from the massive development chart and reduced this time by 20% giving 7 min 20C for negatives taken under sun/shade contrast developed in PCM 20 1+63.
This is as per post 377.
The resultant negatives were of rather low density but had the full range of contrast. Here is a scan:



Quite close using HC-110 times.

At box speed?

 

[Alan Johnson]

At box speed?

Yes, EI=50.
IIRC , Henning Serger shoots it at EI=25 to get a flatter curve.

 

[JWMster]

Karl - because you asked (not because my shots are anything special by any means):

Here's a shot or two fwiw from walking with my new-to-me RB67 and pistol grip... which works better than I'd have thought. Shots with PC512 in the title are the ones I'm referring to and used Delta 400 with an Orange filter at adjusted box speed (effectively ISO 100). Scanned with an Epson 850 and Silverfast HDR 9 and cropped/keystoned in DxO software.... 'cause it's easy and I use it for Fuji digital.

 

[chuckroast]

The only darkroom accident I ever had (so far, knock on wood) was with propylene glycol. I heated it in a microwave a container that was ill-suited for it, and long story short, it pretty much exploded and some globs of hot glycol landed on my arm. No permanent damage or anything, but it was annoying for a couple of days. It helped that I always mix small quantities of stuff like this; in this case it was a small 50ml batch. Lower volume = lower impact if something goes wrong.

Careful with glycol. I now prefer to heat it (if I need to, which isn't often) au bain marie, so in a hot water jacket. This is pretty much safe.

I heat PG on a lab mixer/hotplate like this one, with a thermometer supported by the upper bracket to keep an eye on temp and make sure it does not go overly high:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FP8J8YV

This both serves to elevate the temperature of the mixing medium and also provides continuous stirring as you're adding the various chemical components. I didn't know that I needed one of these until I got one. Best money spent.

Obviously, you need to use the proper kind of glass to heat in this or you can get very bad glass shattering. Also, and without exception, eye, hand, and body protection should be worn and good lab technique observed.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Adox HR-50 has high resolution but also a high contrast in mid-tones:

The best things in life are analog | HR-50 with Speed boost

www.adox.de

To develop this I read off 9m 20C for HC-110 1+63 from the massive development chart and reduced this time by 20% giving 7 min 20C for negatives taken under sun/shade contrast developed in PCM 20 1+63.
This is as per post 377.
The resultant negatives were of rather low density but had the full range of contrast. Here is a scan:



Quite close using HC-110 times.

That doesn't look too bad at all. I'm not very familiar wit Adox HR-50 so I can't judge exactly what the results should look like, but your shot seems very printable.
Today I mixed a batch of PCM18 for down home here and as soon as I get some sunshine (rare in Michigan this time of year) I'm going out with that old Zeiss folder and Foma 400. I'm going to cut the roll in half and develop one half in D-76 1+1 and the other half in PCM18 1+50 at HC-110 1+47 times. Now, I'll be honest and admit I don't remember ever shooting Foma 400 in 120, so I need a little advice. I've read here that most folks rate Foma 400 at EI200 or close to that. For this test, I'm wondering if I should rate it at EI200 or shoot it at box speed? I'm leaning toward EI200? This is more to compare grain, but also want to compared shadows with the two developers. Any suggestions?

 

[Alan Johnson]

https://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400

For Fomadon Excel or Kodak Xtol the curve speed is just over EI=200 at gamma=0.6.
I think it has this reputation that the true speed is around 200, it's what I have used.

 

[relistan]

Karl - because you asked (not because my shots are anything special by any means):

Here's a shot or two fwiw from walking with my new-to-me RB67 and pistol grip... which works better than I'd have thought. Shots with PC512 in the title are the ones I'm referring to and used Delta 400 with an Orange filter at adjusted box speed (effectively ISO 100). Scanned with an Epson 850 and Silverfast HDR 9 and cropped/keystoned in DxO software.... 'cause it's easy and I use it for Fuji digital.

Thank you for sharing! Those are looking good

 

[relistan]

https://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-400

For Fomadon Excel or Kodak Xtol the curve speed is just over EI=200 at gamma=0.6.
I think it has this reputation that the true speed is around 200, it's what I have used.

Yes, it’s 200 speed in everything but Foma’s special developer. I always shoot it at 200.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Yes, it’s 200 speed in everything but Foma’s special developer. I always shoot it at 200.

EI200 it is then! We have a little sunshine this morning, so if it sticks around for a while, I'll get that roll shot and post the results.

 

[Sidd]

This is the formula using dimezone-s and 18g metaborate:

DCM18 one shot concentrate:

Propylene Glycol...........................80ml
Sodium metaborate.....................18g
Ascorbic acid...................................12g
Dimezone-S.....................................0.7g
Propylene Glycol to.....................100ml

It can be made in a container partially immersed in hot water. The
ingredients dissolve with stirring at 60C ,with some effervescence around 50C.

For use dilute 1+49 with tapwater.

Provisionally, only tested for Delta 100, develop for the time given in the massive development chart for HC-110 or Ilfotec-HC, either diluted 1+47.

Results for a trip on a sunny day are shown, a wide range of subject brightness is captured. I don't have a densitometer.





The gold standard for this type of proprietary glycol based developer concentrate, the only one left, is Ilfotec-HC.
DCM18 may not have such a long shelf life as it contains some water of crystallization from the metaborate.

Alan, I have mixed 100 ml. of your DCM 18. Awaiting this weekend to shoot some roll. I'll definitely share my experience.

 

[grahamp]

It has been over a year since I mixed my first batch of PC-512 Borax, and I kept a small amount of Part A unused, stored in a 100ml amber chemical bottle.

I used some the other day and the results seem to be the same as when it was first mixed. Not an especially scientific test, but I will be happy keeping Part A up to a year in future.

 

[bluechromis]

I heat PG on a lab mixer/hotplate like this one, with a thermometer supported by the upper bracket to keep an eye on temp and make sure it does not go overly high:

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07FP8J8YV

This both serves to elevate the temperature of the mixing medium and also provides continuous stirring as you're adding the various chemical components. I didn't know that I needed one of these until I got one. Best money spent.

Obviously, you need to use the proper kind of glass to heat in this or you can get very bad glass shattering. Also, and without exception, eye, hand, and body protection should be worn and good lab technique observed.

I have mixer that looks similar to that. Mine tends to get too hot even on the lowest setting. So I have to turn the heat on and off.

 

[relistan]

It has been over a year since I mixed my first batch of PC-512 Borax, and I kept a small amount of Part A unused, stored in a 100ml amber chemical bottle.

I used some the other day and the results seem to be the same as when it was first mixed. Not an especially scientific test, but I will be happy keeping Part A up to a year in future.

Good to know! That matches my results as well.

 

[Alan Johnson]

PCM20 [and probably HC-110] do not work with microfilm type films to give pictorial contrast, at least for practically useable EIs.
I tried Spur Ultra R 800 at EI=10 in PCM20 for the dilution and times as specified in the massive development chart for HC-110 with Adox CMS20 but only obtained underexposed shadows and blown highlights that could not be rescued electronically.

OTOH the Adox HR-50 ,Aviphot 80 modified by the proprietary speed boost process, works very well in PCM20 with the scanner on auto and likely would print on silver gelatin satisfactorily:

 

[relistan]

@Alan Johnson What is the Base+fog like on these metaborate variants? One of the things that is much better with PC-512 Borax vs PC-Glycol is that it has basically no worse fog than most commercial developers. I had attributed that in part to the pH difference.