New HC-110 Formula

[MattKing]

The Kodak datasheet for Polymax T developer is an example of what may need to be revised in the HC-110 datasheet. That datasheet lists the storage life for an unopened bottle of Polymax T as '"indefinite" but a storage life for an opened, half full bottle as "two months" (which in my experience is pessimistic).

 

[Eric Rose]

You guys could solve all your problems and just ditch HC110 and use PyroCat-HD instead. Just saying

 

[Alan9940]

You guys could solve all your problems and just ditch HC110 and use PyroCat-HD instead. Just saying

I use a LOT of Pyrocat-HD, but there is something special (to my eye) about the combo of Tri-X and HC-110. But, in full disclosure I have used that combo for LF and MF Tri-X for 40 years so, maybe, this is simply an "old dog, new tricks" situation. Naah...I'm too old to change now!

 

[AgX]

You guys could solve all your problems and just ditch HC110 and use PyroCat-HD instead. Just saying

Sean could make Momme Andresen honory member posthum and oblige all Apug fellows to only use Rodinal.
All longevity issues and respective threads would vanish...

 

[alanrockwood]

The alkali is so different in this version, I doubt if it would do the same thing when vinegar is added. IDK, just saying.

PE

That is also what I suspect.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I seriously doubt that I have publicly shamed myself by describing what the vast majority of B&W workers do with their used chemicals...

Anyone who does what you do deserves the same shame you do.

...Please enlighten us as to how YOU dispose of your B&W chemicals.

Save them in the empty, rinsed-out 1.5 liter PETE bottles my orange juice comes packaged in. Take those, properly labeled "photo chemicals," to the household hazardous waste drop off point at our local landfill several times each year. In other words, the right way.

 

[ciniframe]

Well, I just discovered, after all my paper developer went bad, that I can use HC-110 as a paper developer also. So I think I'll stock up from Freestyle while I can. I think they still have the old stuff. Sure wish they would invent a paper developer concentrate that came in little sealed packets (like mustard packets at a fast food joint) that made only 1 quart at a time. Don't get into the darkroom enough to justify making up 2.5 gallons of paper developer all at one time.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Well, I just discovered, after all my paper developer went bad, that I can use HC-110 as a paper developer also. So I think I'll stock up from Freestyle while I can. I think they still have the old stuff. Sure wish they would invent a paper developer concentrate that came in little sealed packets (like mustard packets at a fast food joint) that made only 1 quart at a time. Don't get into the darkroom enough to justify making up 2.5 gallons of paper developer all at one time.

It's not a mustard packet but Arista paper dev comes as a liquid diluted 1:10 or something, whenever I'm in the dark room I just mix up a liter and throw away the diluted stuff if I'm not going to use it within a week. Liquidol is the same but I've been having troubles with it staining my papers yellow, described in another thread so I'm switching back to arista.

 

[jim appleyard]

Well, I just discovered, after all my paper developer went bad, that I can use HC-110 as a paper developer also. So I think I'll stock up from Freestyle while I can. I think they still have the old stuff. Sure wish they would invent a paper developer concentrate that came in little sealed packets (like mustard packets at a fast food joint) that made only 1 quart at a time. Don't get into the darkroom enough to justify making up 2.5 gallons of paper developer all at one time.

I think they used to make Dektol in quarts? You can also look into LPL developer, liquid or powder.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Some film developers can affect papers causing odd curve shapes or low speeds. This is due to the high Sulfite in most cases.

As for the Liquidol, I hope you have better success with something else, but the literally thousands of gallons sold have shown no problems so far. Unless it is a bad batch. Have you contacted the Formulary?

Dektol was made in quart sizes.

PE

 

[Alan Johnson]

Legacy Pro: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/stat...190_LEGACYPRO_L110_FILM_DEVELOPER_7.26.18.pdf
cf HC-110 new from post 27.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The L110 MSDS resembles the revised HC110 MSDS to a remarkable extent.

PE

 

[mshchem]

Ah, the new bottles Kodak are using look like Legacy Pro.

 

[alanrockwood]

Wow, I don't know what happened, but I just tried posting a proposed method for adding SO2 and HBr to an HC-110-like mixture, and it didn't post. So in somewhat shortened form, here is my proposal, not including all of the explanatory stuff.

To an HC-110-like mixture that has not had the SO2 or HBr added yet, add sodium sulfite and an excess of aquaous hydrobromic acid. After the reaction has taken finnished dehydrate the mixture with anhydrous magnesium sulfate. Filter out the solids. This will remove the MgSO4, taking the water with it, as well as solid NaBr. If necessary treat again with anhydrous MgSO4 to remove the last traces of water. Depending on the solubility of NaBr in the fake HC-110, there may be some Na+ and Br- ions still left in solution. This probably won't hurt anything.

Additional aspects of this proposed scheme could be discussed. For example, this is probably not the least expensive way to accomplish the goal, but is is something that could be done in a home lab (assuming it works), whereas using gaseous SO2 and HBr would not be easy for a home chemist.

 

[AgX]

What seems banal in a testtube will likely be a problem for a blending plant concerning the HBr and even standard reaction kettles.

 

[Anon Ymous]

... Additional aspects of this proposed scheme could be discussed. For example, this is probably not the least expensive way to accomplish the goal, but is is something that could be done in a home lab (assuming it works), whereas using gaseous SO2 and HBr would not be easy for a home chemist.

Why would anyone want to do this at home? Anyone who could try something like this is far more than capable of mixing any other developer formula in a small, convenient quantity that will not spoil left unused. And the very long shelf life is probably the only real advantage HC110 has. Apart from that, it's probably yet another, rather indifferent developer that doesn't really excel at anything else.

 

[alanrockwood]

Why would anyone want to do this at home? Anyone who could try something like this is far more than capable of mixing any other developer formula in a small, convenient quantity that will not spoil left unused. And the very long shelf life is probably the only real advantage HC110 has. Apart from that, it's probably yet another, rather indifferent developer that doesn't really excel at anything else.

As you say, shelf life is one of the main advantages of HC-110. Another is convenience of use, because it is a liquid. A third is that it is an economical developer.

Another other long-keeping liquid, Rodinal, is not a fine-grain developer, so it is probably not a viable HC-110 substitute.

The keeping quality of L110 has not been established, so it is not necessarily a candidate as an HC-110 substitute at this time.

I am not sure about Ilford HC.

As to why anyone would want to go to the trouble of making their own version of HC-110, I dunno, but to turn the question on its head, why would anyone want to make their own version of any commercially available developer?

 

[Anon Ymous]

I scratch mix everything, including commercially developers, fixers etc. There are no suppliers of photo chemicals in my small town and I have to order everything, including my films. I'm also a low volume user, so mixing a gallon, or 5l of any developer means that I'll dump probably most of it. On the other hand, mixing 500ml of D76, or something very close to Xtol, Perceptol etc only takes minutes. Plus, there's also the possibility of mixing something that isn't commercially available. Over the years, I have gathered lots of chemicals and I'm now able to mix almost everything I need to process BW, C41 and E6. It's not that I have anything against ready made chemicals, they're just not very convenient for me.

 

[absalom1951]

I purchased a bottle of L110 in September, 2016 . The bottle has been opened for almost 3 years, it seems to be keeping its qualities .I use it rather sparingly , D76 is my choice of developers.

 

[sepiareverb]

Just ordered three bottles of the old version, that will likely last me as long as I will want to use it.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

IThe bottle has been opened for almost 3 years, it seems to be keeping its qualities .

That's indeed very encouraging. If the new HC110 has similar storage life, there's no good reason to lament about the switch to new formulation.

 

[btaylor]

I purchased a bottle of L110 in September, 2016 . The bottle has been opened for almost 3 years, it seems to be keeping its qualities .I use it rather sparingly , D76 is my choice of developers.

My experience with L110 mirrors this as well.

 

[Alan9940]

That's indeed very encouraging. If the new HC110 has similar storage life, there's no good reason to lament about the switch to new formulation.

For me, only if the new formula matches the characteristics of the old.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why would anyone want to do this at home? Anyone who could try something like this is far more than capable of mixing any other developer formula in a small, convenient quantity that will not spoil left unused. And the very long shelf life is probably the only real advantage HC110 has. Apart from that, it's probably yet another, rather indifferent developer that doesn't really excel at anything else.

Re: hc-110 doesn't Excel at anything

The main advantage of hc-110 to me is it gives me the desired tonal results with Delta 400 and Tri-X. It's not the sharpest, finest grain or most shadow detail. But I like the way it looks.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Wow, I don't know what happened, but I just tried posting a proposed method for adding SO2 and HBr to an HC-110-like mixture, and it didn't post. So in somewhat shortened form, here is my proposal, not including all of the explanatory stuff.

To an HC-110-like mixture that has not had the SO2 or HBr added yet, add sodium sulfite and an excess of aquaous hydrobromic acid. After the reaction has taken finnished dehydrate the mixture with anhydrous magnesium sulfate. Filter out the solids. This will remove the MgSO4, taking the water with it, as well as solid NaBr. If necessary treat again with anhydrous MgSO4 to remove the last traces of water. Depending on the solubility of NaBr in the fake HC-110, there may be some Na+ and Br- ions still left in solution. This probably won't hurt anything.

Additional aspects of this proposed scheme could be discussed. For example, this is probably not the least expensive way to accomplish the goal, but is is something that could be done in a home lab (assuming it works), whereas using gaseous SO2 and HBr would not be easy for a home chemist.

Very elegant. I would not want to do it at home though. Also, the amount of Bromide ion will be in proportion to the SO2 which may be incorrect for the formula.

PE