PhotoStudio13 discontinuing Scala process

[AgX]

A process done in a dip&dunk machine can be done the same in a Jobo tank.

It rather is a matter of film-volume or economics.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I think it will probably do just fine. If it works with Scala 160, most regular BW films should reverse well in it. Adox just aren't likely to be able to hold your hand through narrowing down an FD time - as they effectively stated last time this all was brought up.

I suspect the main innovation that Adox have achieved is bleach longevity being suitable for a single solution that lasts long enough to be shipped to retailers and delivered to end users.

 

[mohmad khatab]

welcome ,
I find no justification for all this great sadness due to the closure or death of a photographic laboratory.
Oh man, you can do everything with your bare hands.
All the chemical elements that you want for this process are available for sale at the ((the famous German merchant)) whose name I do not remember, but you will not have to pay shipping fees by post. You can visit the store yourself and buy all the elements you want from the seller face to face.
- After that, you return to your home and enjoy mixing and preparing chemistry to obtain the chemistry of the process (AGFA SCALA) to last with you for a long time.
Or you can mix a small amount according to your use.
You should not worry about this at all, as long as you have a true passion, you will surely succeed in doing everything to get what you want.

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

welcome ,
I find no justification for all this great sadness due to the closure or death of a photographic laboratory.
Oh man, you can do everything with your bare hands.

Not everyone is in a position to develop at home and not everyone would want to do reversal processing at home. Labs are very much a necessity.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

If somebody, in the EEC, would like to startup a new Scala or B&W reversal processing service, my Colenta developing machine is for sale.
At the time, I did a lot of B&W reversal in it, the process I used was based on the glorious AGFA DIA DIRECT system, modified for a more 'general' use.
Particularly the Ilford Delta 100 was very good in this process.
The machine comes with a lot of accessoires and the elaborated formula (some baths have to be home brewed as they can't be purchased any more).

I illustrated quite a lot of B&W projects this way, see as an example: http://www.photoeil.be/books/dieter-roth.html

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

If somebody, in the EEC, would like to startup a new Scala or B&W reversal processing service, my Colenta developing machine is for sale.

The machine comes with a lot of accessoires and the elaborated formula (some baths have to be home brewed as they can't be purchased any more).

Wishing your Colenta a speedy sale. In case the formula are not IP protected, I would be happy to try them out if you can share.

 

[foc]

If somebody, in the EEC, would like to startup a new Scala or B&W reversal processing service, my Colenta developing machine is for sale.
At the time, I did a lot of B&W reversal in it, the process I used was based on the glorious AGFA DIA DIRECT system, modified for a more 'general' use.
Particularly the Ilford Delta 100 was very good in this process.
The machine comes with a lot of accessoires and the elaborated formula (some baths have to be home brewed as they can't be purchased any more).

I illustrated quite a lot of B&W projects this way, see as an example: http://www.photoeil.be/books/dieter-roth.html

View attachment 293081

Best of luck with the sale of your Colenta, they are a very versatile machine and a great asset for anyone looking to automate processing.

I read somewhere, many years ago, ( I can't remember ) that Agfa Dia Direct process was based on Agfa's AP41 colour transparency process, and that the film was something like a B&W chromogenic transparency. Am I raving mad or is there any truth in this?

 

[Philippe-Georges]

If I am not mistaking, the AGFA DIA DIRECT film dates from the '50s (if not earlier) and was intended for more practical purposes among them: making text slides for projection/presentation, some kind of graphic applications and the recording of (microscopic-) scientific images.
I have seen wonderful pictures taken with an electrode microscope on that film.

When I was a student, we used that film to make text boards when projecting our (experimental-) silent B&W 16mm film (AGFA) as we hadn't the equipement to record sound nor had we a system to make titels, and decided on the text later once the editing was done...
We just put a normal slide projector next to the 16 mm film projector and stopped the film projection to show the text (black text on a white field), those where the days!
Wa also used the AGFA ORTHO 25 film to make text slides (white text on a black field).
The B&W 16mm film was reversal developed in the same soup as the Dia Direct (by hand!).

 

[AgX]

If I am not mistaking, the AGFA DIA DIRECT film dates from the '50s (if not earlier) and was intended for more practical purposes among them: making text slides for projection/presentation, some kind of graphic applications and the recording of (microscopic-) scientific images.
I have seen wonderful pictures taken with an electrode microscope on that film.

To my understading it was the only Gevaert "consumer" film that survived the merging of firms.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

In the aftermath of WW2, Gevaert (Mortsel) acquired the leftovers of AGFA (Leverkusen) as a war compensation, so it became AGFA-GEVAERT N.V., and the Belgian holding, the mother company, is still called like that.
So if that emulsion was AGFA or Gevaert is of lesser importance, as long it was/is available for us to shoot with it...

As an aside, the worlds first company, in medio 19th century, to produce photographic (glass-) plates on a for that time large industrial level was the Belgian chemist and scientific researcher Désiré Van Monckhoven in Ghent, he also invented the enlarger (which worked with sunlight).

 

[AgX]

In the aftermath of WW2, Gevaert (Mortsel) acquired the leftovers of AGFA (Leverkusen) as a war compensation, so it became AGFA-GEVAERT N.V., and the Belgian holding, the mother company, is still called like that.

It was Gevaert-Agfa NV, created in 1964 to form the belgian side of the Gevaert/Agfa merger resp. the counterpart to the west-german new Agfa-Gevaert AG.
Later the name was changed so that both of the twin companies basically had same name.

 

[Pat Erson]

What black and white reversal labs are now left in Europe?

Forget Arka in Paris... The machine broke down last year and it would have costed them 20K to get it repaired.
They passed so no more Scala processing there.

 

[Klaus Wehner]

Aktuell kann das Labor für Schwarz-Weiß-Umkehrentwicklung unter den Bedingungen der Corona-Pandemie nicht richtig arbeiten.
Aus diesem Grund habe ich ein Chemie-Kit entwickelt, das die einfache Entwicklung von Schwarzweiß-Dias von bestimmten Filmen (Agfa Scala, Adox Scala 160, Adox Silvermax, Ilford FP-4) ermöglicht.

Fragen beantworte ich gerne.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Klaus

 

[AgX]

But why is this kit kept in obscurity since years? There only are vague hints at forums. Not even at your site. Each detail has to be inquired on by email.

 

[Klaus Wehner]

Gute Frage!

Ein Grund ist wahrscheinlich: Ich bin kein guter Geschäftsmann.

Es gibt eine kleine Gruppe interessierter Benutzer. Mit denen habe ich persönlichen Kontakt und helfe bei Problemen mit Rat und Tat.
Wer mich persönlich kontaktiert, dem helfe ich auch gerne.
Gleiches gilt für meinen Negativentwickler.

Das Thema Umkehrprozesse bei Schwarzweiß-Negativfilmen ist sehr komplex.
Meiner Erfahrung nach ist eine individuelle und professionelle Herangehensweise erforderlich.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen
Kaus

 

[Philippe-Georges]

The procedure to process the AGFA DIADIRECT film is easy to find in the original printed AGFA publications (and perhaps on the internet), all you have to do is replacing the Neutol by an ADOX developer and do a vast amount of testing to adopt it too the (modern-) emulsions of your choice as the Agfa-Diadirect emulsion was an 'ancient' one, some trial and error thus...
I started with the procedures as published in the Agfa-Gevaert books from the 1950's, and experimented till I found what I liked (some 20 years ago).
I had two variations of my final procedure: one for classic emulsions and one for T-grain emulsions; the main difference was te developing time and dilution of the second (re-)developer, the duration of the re-exposure and the fixing time.
The Colenta developing machine was a very good and thrustful companion!

 

[Tom Kershaw]

I had two variations of my final procedure: one for classic emulsions and one for T-grain emulsions; the main difference was te developing time and dilution of the second (re-)developer, the duration of the re-exposure and the fixing time.

I have read that standard films like you mention are more difficult to reversal process? My experiments with Fomapan R and Adox HR-50 / Scala 50 worked well without huge amounts of empirical experimentation.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I have read that standard films like you mention are more difficult to reversal process? My experiments with Fomapan R and Adox HR-50 / Scala 50 worked well without huge amounts of empirical experimentation.

In the beginning of my 'adventure' in B&W reversal developing, the contrast turned too low, particularly with the T-grain films from Ilford.
When I found what I wanted, the Delta 100 turned out to be the very best of all low speed emulsions for B&W reversal developing (besides the Agfa-Scala who didn't came in LF).
The emulsion had to have the same box speed as the Polaroïd 545 (test-) film!
Since then this film was my 'standard' for photography work for printed publishing.
I made the photo illustrations for at least 5 B&W books this way.

At the time, publishers/printers ware very keen on B&W transparencies as these were much easier (cheaper) to scan than prints and, above all, a not debatable reference when discussing printing quality; the expression: "follow the slide" was a near expletive, not in the least for B&W!
Then, there were about two to three manufacturiers for the right fluorescent tube lamps for what we call now a "lightpad" as these had to be ISO standard calibrated, so every publisher, graphic designer, pre-press, scanning service, chromiste (= colour manager?) and printer had nearly the same light table, all over the world, Just-Normlicht (*) to name one.

BTW, nowadays, try to find three computer monitors in three different businesses, all over the world, that achieve nearly the same and trustworthy colour AND density/luminescence reproduction, in the same printing production chain, not to mention the computerplatforms and software!
Imaging: a Belgian photographer, a French publisher, a Dutch graphic designer, a German scanning service, a Swiss chromiste and a Chinese printer, good luck!

Frankly, right now I feel lucky to be retired as I had my share...

(*) the specifications from Just-Normlicht:
GRAPHIC COLOUR MATCHING TO ISO 3664:2009
The D50 light source referenced in the standard ISO 3664:2009 "Graphic technology and photography – Viewing conditions" is defined by the CIE with a specific spectral energy distribution between 300 nm and 780 nm in increments of 5 nm. Other conditions to be fulfilled by a standardised viewing device in accordance with this standard are chromaticity coordinates (x and y for the 10° observer) with a tolerance of max. 0.005°, a general colour rendering index of Ra > 90, and metamerism indices of MIvis < 1.0 and MIuv < 1.5. The metamerism index further defines the quality of the light source simulating the D50 illuminant in the visible (VIS) and UV ranges. The UV aspect of this standard is particularly important given the prominent use of production materials containing optical brightening agents (OBAs).

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Das Thema Umkehrprozesse bei Schwarzweiß-Negativfilmen ist sehr komplex.
Meiner Erfahrung nach ist eine individuelle und professionelle Herangehensweise erforderlich.

+1

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

When I found what I wanted, the Delta 100 turned out to be the very best of all low speed emulsions for B&W reversal developing (besides the Agfa-Scala who didn't came in LF).
The emulsion had to have the same box speed as the Polaroïd 545 (test-) film!
Since then this film was my 'standard' for photography work for printed publishing.
I made the photo illustrations for at least 5 B&W books this way.

I'm curious about the transparencies you made from Delta 100. Are these works on your website?

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I'm curious about the transparencies you made from Delta 100. Are these works on your website?

Yes, an example is here: http://www.photoeil.be/books/dieter-roth.html, the pictures you see are the whole frame as published (made with a Hasselblad on Delta 100).
And here: http://www.photoeil.be/books/willy-peeters---bewogen-brons.html, the panoramic pictures are made wit a Linhof Technorama 6x17, the other are digital, this was a hybrid workflow.
You could comment that it was/is easier to reframe a 'normally' made picture, but these B&W panoramic were intended to be (digitally-) printed in 120 cm by 40 cm for an exposition.
There are others, but not on my website, and in the early cookbooks too, the B&W was also done that way: colour reversal for the recipes and B&W reversal for the more random images .

On a certain point, the publishers weren't willing to pay for the scanning anymore, so I had to buy a scanner and do it myself, that's progress...

Right now, for some of my personal work, I use traditional B&W negative film and scan and reverse.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

And here: http://www.photoeil.be/books/willy-peeters---bewogen-brons.html, the panoramic pictures are made wit a Linhof Technorama 6x17, the other are digital, this was a hybrid workflow.

These are excellent, thanks for sharing, and the explanation. I have a plan to do some 6x12 photography, I have the lens, but no camera at the moment.

On a certain point, the publishers weren't willing to pay for the scanning anymore, so I had to buy a scanner and do it myself, that's progress...

Which scanner were / are you using? I have a Nikon Coolscan 9000, which while capable of reasonable quality can be a rather slow experience.

 

[Klaus Wehner]

Zu dem Thema "Schwarz-Weiß Dias" gibt es sehr unterschiedliche Meingen und Erwartungen.
Es ist oft nicht klar welchen Verwendungszweck und welchen Qualitätsanspruch die Dias erfüllen sollen.
Daraus entstehen viele Missverständnisse.

Die höchste Qualität erfordert ein Schwarz-Weiß Dia, dass für eine Projektion auf eine Leinwand in einem dunklen Raum bestimmt ist.
Hier gibt es höchste Anforderungen bei der Maximaldichte, der Tonalität, dem Partialkontrast (Schärfe).
Das zu erreichen ist nicht ganz einfach. Dafür habe ich mein Umkehr-Verfahren entwickelt.

Für eine hochwertige Projektion ist eine hohe Maximaldichte erforderlich.
Der Projektor sollte die Maximaldichte gerade nicht mehr durchleuchten können.
Nur so entsteht auf der Leinwand das wirklich tiefste Schwarz (Definition von "Zone Null").

Eine hohe Maximaldichte ermöglicht aber auch lange Gradationskurve.
Auf dieser langen Gradationskurve können sich die Grauwerte viel besser differenzieren als auf einer kurzen Gradationskurve.
Das ist der spezifisch Wert eines Schwarz-Weiß Dias: es kann auf diese Weise die Graustufen viel besser differenzieren als ein Aufsichts-Bild.

Das ist in aller Kürze der theoretische Hintergrund von Schwarz-Weiß Dias.

herzliche Grüße
Kaus

 

[Philippe-Georges]

These are excellent, thanks for sharing, and the explanation. I have a plan to do some 6x12 photography, I have the lens, but no camera at the moment.

Which scanner were / are you using? I have a Nikon Coolscan 9000, which while capable of reasonable quality can be a rather slow experience.

An EPSON V750 with the wet scan adapter and, not at least, Silverfast software. Good software is as important as the scanner itself.
This was for me the most reasonable solution as investments were getting 'heavy', and the publishers didn't gave an extra budget for the scanning work...

 

[Raghu Kuvempunagar]

Thanks @Philippe-Georges. Top quality work!

@Klaus Wehner: what's the DMax you get from your process?