PhotoStudio13 discontinuing Scala process

perkeleellinen · Jan 2, 2022

In sum so far:

Foto Weckbrodt - stopped
Arka Lab- stopped
PhotoStudio13- stopped
Klaus Wehner - paused

What's the status with DR5? Could that be the only commercial option in the world?

Philippe-Georges · Jan 2, 2022

perkeleellinen said:
In sum so far:

Foto Weckbrodt - stopped

Arka Lab- stopped

PhotoStudio13- stopped

Klaus Wehner - paused

What's the status with DR5? Could that be the only commercial option in the world?

Room for an new and daring entrepreneur to start...
Remember the demise of AGFA-PHOTO in 2005? In two years time the gap started to fill in with several small and not so small company's and the expanding of others. It's a cyclus...

I contributed my portion, although it was very small.

Ivo Stunga · Jan 2, 2022

I feel there's some demystifying to be done in the world of BW Reversal, but I'm nearly not enough technically educated to to this - so I'll point out some curiosities out of my experience instead.

Over the years I've:
1) read some religious stories about this film being incompatible with reversal and that film being the best one for it...
2) heard KMN04 bleach being pain in the ass and totally unusable...
3) seen commercial entities shitting on Ilford recipe for no apparent (except commercial) reason, providing subpar, poorly made examples...
4) time and time again been exposed to info that only clear base films are compatible...
5) seen people having problems with T-grain films, thinking that they surely have compatibility issues.

And all that being just... Wrong in my humble experience of throwing any film at Ilford reversal recipe I'm using.
1) As of today I've had trouble reversing one film. An ancient soviet SVEMA with green base - overdevelops to whiteout in a mere minute. Stand reversal works fine, though, but PQ Universal creates Bromide drag effect, intermittent agitation could possibly fix this.
2) If permanganate bleach is giving your emulsion problems, dilute it and/or reduce bleaching time. I use mine quite dilute and have experienced just three instances of emulsion damage.
3) DR5
4) All BW films I've tried thus far are 100% compatible. I've reversed 20 unique films and do intend to carry on. Hell, I've even got nice pics from expired C-41 and E-6 films.
5) add hypo to first developer.

Examples? Available on my Flickr, done with minimum Lightroom time - links to specific examples to be found in About:
https://www.flickr.com/people/ivo_stunga/

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 2, 2022

Ivo Stunga said:
1) read some religious stories about this film being incompatible with reversal and that film being the best one for it...

I think all general purpose and some special purposes films can be reversal processed, at least you can get a positive image. With some trial and error, any print developer with appropriate amount of halide solvent can be tuned to give very acceptable results though for some films you might need to downrate the film. With proper process control any of Dichromate, Permanganate, Copper Chloride bleach works fine. Light exposure is easy but it can be eliminated by using a fogging redeveloper like Sodium Dithionite which gives excellent results. Or a E6-style redevelopment using a nucleating agent (like Thiourea) followed by normal development also works fine. Even a direct toning step (sepia toners) in the second development step gives excellent results.

Having said that, just because a film can be reversed using a particular process, and one gets a recognizable positive image, it doesn't mean that the results are outstanding. It is far too easy to make crappy slides and then fix some of the problems in the scanned images. More dangerously, one can get acceptable results after a few attempts and start believing that that's the best possible result. As far as giving outstanding results is concerned, not all processes are the same and not all films are the same. What might be a wonderful film for scanning is not necessarily a good film for projection e.g. Fuji Superia. Base tint is a very important factor in projection and blue tint doesn't give best viewing experience though X-Ray films can be very nicely reversed. If DMax is not good, slides look very unattractive and surely several films give poor DMax. What DR5 claims is outstanding results for the films it accepts. I'm sure DR5 can easily reverse all films that rest of us can, but it won't accept films for which it can guarantee outstanding results. Naysayers might contest, but customers of DR5 seem to be very happy with the results.

Ivo Stunga · Jan 2, 2022

Agreed completely - any film will do, but some are just better. My scans are uploaded with +- basoc edits. A dash of Basic sliders + sharpening + dusting. Usually edited to match the projected slide (from memory).
Maybe an upload of a raw scan next to an edited version could be far more representative and is something that could be easily provided (attached below).

I don't get the low density / poor contrast / gray slides possibility - it's not something my slides suffer from, thus I'm tempted to believe it's not an attribute of Ilford recipe either, and is a matter of fine-tuning, agreed completely and tested.

Attached: a shot from last Delta 100 I shot at box speed and reversed in PQ Universal. Projected it looks pretty close to the edited version.
Scanned with Plustek 7600i Ai raw - pretty much with no adjustments but a slight "2" for Highlights and "-2" for shadows, and everything auto set to Off.

And Rollei Infrared 400

perkeleellinen · Jan 2, 2022

Philippe-Georges said:
Room for an new and daring entrepreneur to start...
Remember the demise of AGFA-PHOTO in 2005? In two years time the gap started to fill in with several small and not so small company's and the expanding of others. It's a cyclus...

An uplifting thought that reminded me that Silverpan in the UK do B&W reversal:

https://www.silverpan.co.uk/project-page

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 2, 2022

Ivo Stunga said:
I don't get the low density / poor contrast / gray slides possibility - it's not something my slides suffer from,

Your work is excellent no doubt. I think part of the problem with Ilford method is Ilford itself says HP5 Plus is not suitable for reversal whereas it is the most popular film among DR5 customers giving excellent results.

Ivo Stunga · Jan 2, 2022

Thank you - and every film I tried behaves good or very good, so I don't get where the mysticism and errors stem from.
Well, I don't get following to the letter either, - any rule in film photography is just a starting point; at least that's my approach.

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

@Klaus Wehner[/USER] : Was ist der DMax, den Sie von Ihrem Prozess erhalten?[/QUOTE]

Ein Beispiel: mit einem Ilford FP-4 erreiche ich eine Maximaldichte von etwa 4,00.
Diese Maximaldichte halte ich für gut und austreichend.

Herzliche Grüße
Kaus

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 2, 2022

Klaus Wehner said:
Ein Beispiel: mit einem Ilford FP-4 erreiche ich eine Maximaldichte von etwa 4,00.
Diese Maximaldichte halte ich für gut und austreichend.

Very impressive!

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

Kannst Du die (Maximal-) Dichten Deiner Schwarz-Weiß Dias messen?

Ich halte es für wichtig, die Dichten und die Sensitometrie bei jeder Umkehr-Entwicklung zu erfassen.

Bei jeder Entwicklung entwickele ich ein Sensitometrie-Clip mit.
So habe ich jederzeit eine genaue Kontrolle meines Umkehrprozesses

Herzliche Grüße
Kaus

mohmad khatab · Jan 2, 2022

Klaus Wehner said:
Kannst Du die (Maximal-) Dichten Deiner Schwarz-Weiß Dias messen?

Ich halte es für wichtig, die Dichten und die Sensitometrie bei jeder Umkehr-Entwicklung zu erfassen.

Bei jeder Entwicklung entwickele ich ein Sensitometrie-Clip mit.
So habe ich jederzeit eine genaue Kontrolle meines Umkehrprozesses

Herzliche Grüße
Kaus

Eng : Rudy
Please tell us what this German man says.
You are Austrian and you can certainly translate what he says.
God bless you, greetings to all.

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

Oh, sorry!
I used a translation program. Obviously, that did not work.
I will retranslate everything into English.

Best regards
Klaus

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

There are very different opinions and expectations on the subject of "black and white slides".
It is often not clear which purpose and which quality requirements the slides should fulfill.
This leads to many misunderstandings.

The highest quality is required for a black and white slide that is intended for projection on a screen in a dark room.
Here there are the highest requirements for maximum density, tonality, partial contrast (sharpness).
To achieve this is not easy. For this I have developed my inversion method.

For a high quality projection, a high maximum density is required.
The projector should just not be able to shine through the maximum density.
This is the only way to get the really deepest black on the screen (definition of "zone zero").

However, a high maximum density also allows for long gradation curves.
On this long gradation curve, the gray values can differentiate much better than on a short gradation curve.
This is the specific value of a black and white slide: in this way it can differentiate the gray levels much better than a supervisory image.

This is in brief the theoretical background of black and white slides.

kind regards
Kaus
Last edited: Today at 12:

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

Currently, the laboratory for black and white reversal development cannot work properly under the conditions of the Corona pandemic.
For this reason, I have developed a chemistry kit that allows easy development of black and white slides from certain films (Agfa Scala, Adox Scala 160, Adox Silvermax, Ilford FP-4).

I will be happy to answer any questions.

With kind regards
Klaus

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

@Klaus Wehner [/USER] : What is the DMax you get from your process?[/QUOTE].

For example: with an Ilford FP-4 I get a maximum density of about 4.00.
I consider this maximum density to be good and sufficient.

Best regards
Kaus

Klaus Wehner · Jan 2, 2022

Can you measure the (maximum) densities of your black and white slides?

I think it's important to capture densities and sensitometry during reverse development.

I develop a sensitometry clip with each development.
This way I have an accurate control of my reversal process at all times

Best regards
Kaus

Ivo Stunga · Jan 2, 2022

Klaus Wehner said:
Can you measure the (maximum) densities of your black and white slides?

A question to whom if I might ask so?

Anyhow, I'd love to be able to mess with that someday, some education hurt nobody, but my understanding is that it requires addition tools and all my spare cash already goes to film lol. Currently all I have are some Densitometry (pulling from memory) tools offered in Silverfast + Plustek 7600i Ai that I don't quite understand/use.
If I'd be able to use that somehow for this purpose, I'm all ears and would love to try it!
Currently I can say that I cannot see 25W CFL lamp in 20cm distance through my blacks. If I can see it, I make adjustments the next time around so I couldn't.

Lachlan Young · Jan 2, 2022

Klaus Wehner said:
For example: with an Ilford FP-4 I get a maximum density of about 4.00.
I consider this maximum density to be good and sufficient.

Is your process geared towards producing 'Maximum Dmax', or 'Effective Dmax' (following Ron Mowrey's definitions found here)?

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Jan 2, 2022

Lachlan Young said:
Is your process geared towards producing 'Maximum Dmax', or 'Effective Dmax' (following Ron Mowrey's definitions found here)?

Have you seen transparencies made by either DR5 or Wehman process to even be asking this question? It beats me why would anybody who is in the business of making outstanding transparencies optimize the process towards 'Maximum Dmax'! For instance, who would choose a process that produces 'Maximum Dmax' if it also results in unacceptably high DMin?

Klaus Wehner · Jan 3, 2022

to #68

This is also a good way to roughly estimate the maximum density:
Hold the black slide directly in front of your eye and then look into a light source (desk lamp) for about 30...60 seconds.

At a density of about 3.00 you can just see the light source but not the surrounding area.

If it is important to you, you can simply send me a waste slide (leader of a flm) by mail. I can measure it with my densitometer.

Best regards
Klaus

Ivo Stunga · Jan 3, 2022

Oooh, that test sounds lovely and danke you for your kind offer - I might make use of it and send you some!
What film would interest you the most?

Klaus Wehner · Jan 3, 2022

to #69, #70

I have mentioned the "effective density".

But it is the "gross density". So I measured the silver density and the veil density together.
To know the "net density" you have to subtract the veil density (0.15...0.25) from the gross density.

Best regards
Klaus

Klaus Wehner · Jan 3, 2022

to #72

I will gladly measure your films.

There can also be several.
It would be good to have a piece of film on which something of the veil density and something of the D.max can be seen together.

Which films do you use?

With kind regards
Klaus

Ivo Stunga · Jan 3, 2022

I see and am enjoying this very much, danke!

Currently I have APX100 (Kentmere 100) in camera and next I'll be exploring pushing Kentmere 400 and Fomapan 200 2-3 stops and see how it goes.
I really like working with Delta 100 @400, Scala 50/160, Fomapan 200 and Kentmere 100. And Rollei IR 400, Superpan 200 and Retro 400S. And have my eyes on Adox CHS 100 II in the near future when ISO100 becomes viable outside again (constant overcast daytime evenings currently here).

PhotoStudio13 discontinuing Scala process

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