Really? Vinegar is under $1.00 per jug here. I'll have to check stop bath again. I have to have stop bath shipped, too...
I'm interested to know the price of vinegar in Canada.
Really? Vinegar is under $1.00 per jug here. I'll have to check stop bath again. I have to have stop bath shipped, too...If you are going to use vinegar that dilute, try using stop bath that dilute.
For me it ends up being cheaper than the vinegar!
I think they are very silly if they are practising tax evasion (non-collection of Vat). It is illegal and they leave themselves open to a full tax audit and penalties.
I have been in business long enough to know that any tax evasion will come back to haunt you and not worth it in the end. (In my country the Revenu have very extensive powers)
Tax avoidance is a different matter and is to be encouraged.
Again, I use MY ambient room temp which is about 80F. This gives me reasonable times for most films. Try, at that temp, about ten minutes for Tri-X. If you use a colder temp, like 72 F, try 15 minutes for Tri-X. Do clip tests to zero onto what you find most comfortable. If these times turn out to be too long, simply dilute maybe 1 + 19 to get the shorter time. Dektol is very, very flexible. - David Lyga
ariston, i don't use stop bath at all, i use plain water and it saves me the hassle of an extra chemical to deal with and it has saved me a few dollars over the years.
If you are going to use vinegar that dilute, try using stop bath that dilute.
For me it ends up being cheaper than the vinegar!
Really? Vinegar is under $1.00 per jug here. I'll have to check stop bath again. I have to have stop bath shipped, too...
I'm interested to know the price of vinegar in Canada.
yeah i agree dektol and ansco 130 are very flexible and make absolutely beautiful negatives. i hadn't ever dilute it that much before for fear of not enough developer and too much water
i have memories of xtol sudden death syndrome ( XSDS ) from years ago when kodak published very dilute developer recommendations... i usually want to get my devleopment over with fast
so i go 1:6 for 7 or 8 minutes. expired film i don't want developing for too long so i opt for strong dilutions and short times. i haven't done the press photographer special which was stock and stand for 3 minutes...
ariston, i don't use stop bath at all, i use plain water and it saves me the hassle of an extra chemical to deal with and it has saved me a few dollars over the years.
I think that some retailers quote prices with and without VAT as some customers are exempt from paying it directly. It is likely that the assistant simply failed to notice that he was using the "without VAT" list. So just a mistake.Indeed it is against the law and morally questionable....I'm passing on the info and people can choose whether to "take advantage" of this. If you buy from them with a card, you pay VAT as usual and their prices are pretty keen in the first place.
I think that some retailers quote prices with and without VAT as some customers are exempt from paying it directly. It is likely that the assistant simply failed to notice that he was using the "without VAT" list. So just a mistake.
Such things happen and I hope this clears up what I think is likely to have happened and we can move on.
pentaxuser
I've heard people do this, John. Have you used water for a long time - looking back at older negatives, is there any long-term effect? If not, I wonder why manufacturers recommend it. Maybe a holdover from older emulsions?
nope no problems whatsoever. been doing this since about 1988 no ill effects. i didn't know about doing this until i started doing apprentice work for a lady who was trained in the 20s/30s and
her tank line ( 5x7 sheets ) had no stop and i asked her why, she said she hadn't ever used stop and didn't plan on starting. i sometimes would print her film she developed in the 30s/40s , they looked PERFECT. i don't miss its evil stench...
Come on, stop bath is so damned cheap!
Fixer contaminated by developer is both less effective and has much less fixing capacity. Which leads to using more fixer, and fixer is more expensive than stop bath, which means one spends more money.
Come on, stop bath is so damned cheap!
Okay, let's talk about saving money with stop bath, and we will use Kodak Indicator stop bath as the example, because it is essentially concentrated vinegar with an indicator added.
The Kodak bottle is 16 ounces, and if you dilute it as directed it makes 32 quarts of working solution.
Freestyle sells it for $6.99 US plus tax and shipping - lets say $8.00 US (assuming one buys it with other items).
I use two US quarts per printing session, although if it is dilutes as directed, two quarts will usually work fine for more than one session, if they aren't separated by more than a couple of days. That works out to $0.50 per printing session (or better).
Store vinegar is usually about 5% acetic acid, so you would normally dilute it 1 + 2 to get the acetic acid to the same concentration as the Kodak version.
If Ariston is paying $1.00 for a gallon of vinegar - which is about half what we pay up here, for the cheapest versions - than once that is diluted 1 + 2, he will end up at twelve quarts of working strength stop bath. If one uses two quarts per session, that works out to $0.16 per session - slightly less expensive that the stop bath.
But wait, there is more!.
My storage space for chemicals is at a premium. It is a lot easier for me to store one relatively tiny 16 ounce bottle than a gallon jug.
Why might you save even more if you use indicator stop bath vs. vinegar? Because you can reasonably rely on the indicator to assist you in maximizing your use. I would be much more likely to replace a vinegar based stop bath too early because it lacks an indicator.
And as for using water instead of stop bath:
1) if it isn't a running water bath (which would be difficult for me to establish in my darkroom) it is much less effective at stopping development promptly; and
2) if it isn't a running water bath (which would be difficult for me to establish in my darkroom), it will inevitably lead to there being much greater developer contamination of fixer. Fixer contaminated by developer is both less effective and has much less fixing capacity. Which leads to using more fixer, and fixer is more expensive than stop bath, which means one spends more money.
tax is a form of legalized theft.I think they are very silly if they are practising tax evasion (non-collection of Vat). It is illegal and they leave themselves open to a full tax audit and penalties.
I have been in business long enough to know that any tax evasion will come back to haunt you and not worth it in the end. (In my country the Revenu have very extensive powers)
Tax avoidance is a different matter and is to be encouraged.
tax is a form of legalized theft.
Must be good to be rich, I bet you can afford to fuel with super all the time and make caffenol with Kopi luwak beans.
Actually, if it is legalized, than the correct word is "conversion" rather than "theft".tax is a form of legalized theft.
tax is a form of legalized theft.
the difference is the government won't work and public services will shut down without paying for them and prints and films are just fine without stop bath they have nothing in common other than they are in this thread.Taxes are necessary for operating the government. It is just the cost of doing business, much like using stop bath.
I use regular gas and I do not drink coffee. And stop bath is the cheapest photo chemical except for PhotoFlo.
tax is a form of legalized theft.
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