Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

rhmimac · Sunday at 4:25 AM

One thing I decided after the recent trade wars started: I will only shoot EU/UK black en white 135/120 film for now and will try to cut costs by home developing and scanning. Color film is getting out of reach due to price hike and latest tarriff hike an top of that. I will evaluate by the end of the year and decide then if things are more stable or a bit weakened Re. prices of color film which is Kodak monopoly now. Hopes are on Harman Phoenix and successors to get color film out of their UK factory with equal HQ. We can breath then a bit more then. It's suffocating for now...

FotoD · Sunday at 7:53 AM

mshchem said:
View attachment 395658

Nice. Dry plates seem to have been exported across the ocean as early as the 19th century. Presumably the massive tariffs in the early 1900s affected that business.

ADOX Fotoimpex · Sunday at 9:00 AM

pentaxuser said:
We just have to wait and see what happens to prices from all affected parties . This may not be known for a few weeks yet

pentaxuser

I understand that the current situation is not easy, and we all will struggle to adapt. About counter tarifs in the EU, so far nothing has been disclosed, so here we absolutely need to wait and see. As far as our sales in the US are concerned, we are working with our partners to find a solution to the tariff situation. We should all stay calm for a few days and not jump to any conclusions.
One thing I want to send ahead: The tariff is imposed on the purchasing price of the distributor. This is, of course, a lower price than the end user pays in the store. Since everyone is interested to stay in the market, we will all try to do the best to keep the effect minimized. So even if tarifs have to be passed on because there is no additional margin to share (e.g. films), it will most likely be rather in the range of an 8-10% price increase than the full tariff of 20%. I wish everyone a nice Sunday. Here the sun came out. I will go shoot now and stop thinking about tariffs

FotoD · Sunday at 9:13 AM

Thanks for the update. I hope you find a way to keep supporting the analog community.

retina_restoration · Sunday at 9:47 AM

I will continue to buy Adox products (CHS 100 II and XT-3) no matter what. I want to see Adox thrive.

Sal Santamaura · Sunday at 11:29 AM

DevStopFix said:
Not true regarding most inflationary period. That’s not a fact at all. And the rest of your assertion is notional and speculative.

Several of us refuted that nonsense a long time ago, using actual facts. F4U hasn't been back to this thread since.

mshchem · Sunday at 11:36 AM

ADOX Fotoimpex said:
I understand that the current situation is not easy, and we all will struggle to adapt. About counter tarifs in the EU, so far nothing has been disclosed, so here we absolutely need to wait and see. As far as our sales in the US are concerned, we are working with our partners to find a solution to the tariff situation. We should all stay calm for a few days and not jump to any conclusions.
One thing I want to send ahead: The tariff is imposed on the purchasing price of the distributor. This is, of course, a lower price than the end user pays in the store. Since everyone is interested to stay in the market, we will all try to do the best to keep the effect minimized. So even if tarifs have to be passed on because there is no additional margin to share (e.g. films), it will most likely be rather in the range of an 8-10% price increase than the full tariff of 20%. I wish everyone a nice Sunday. Here the sun came out. I will go shoot now and stop thinking about tariffs

Well said. I've got 2 bottles of new HC-110 PRO pre-ordered from Freestyle. Sometimes I order a few items from Fotoimpex, all sorts of things not available here. And yep, sunny here going out on my bicycle and feel the breeze blowing through what's left of my hair

Andreas Thaler · Sunday at 12:13 PM

For us in the EU, these US products are therefore on the list for retaliatory tariffs:

The European Commission, which coordinates EU trade policy, intends to propose a corresponding list of US products to the EU member states at the meeting in Luxembourg. This list would include US meat, grain, wine, timber, and clothing, as well as chewing gum, dental floss, vacuum cleaners, and toilet paper.

EU-Konter für Zölle: Liste von US-Produkten auf Verhandlungstisch

Nach den von US-Präsident angekündigten und teilweise bereits umgesetzten neuen Zöllen auf Importe in die Vereinigten Staaten beraten am Montag die EU-Handelsministerinnen und -Minister über die weitere Vorgangsweise. Im Raum stehen erste Gegenmaßnahmen – konkret geht es um neue Zölle auf...

orf.at

(Translated via Google)

But if things continue like this, my beloved Pliobond will become a luxury item, if it's even imported at all.

But that will probably be the least of our worries given the value that is currently evaporating on the stock markets.

rhmimac · Sunday at 12:45 PM

ADOX Fotoimpex said:
I understand that the current situation is not easy, and we all will struggle to adapt. About counter tarifs in the EU, so far nothing has been disclosed, so here we absolutely need to wait and see. As far as our sales in the US are concerned, we are working with our partners to find a solution to the tariff situation. We should all stay calm for a few days and not jump to any conclusions.
One thing I want to send ahead: The tariff is imposed on the purchasing price of the distributor. This is, of course, a lower price than the end user pays in the store. Since everyone is interested to stay in the market, we will all try to do the best to keep the effect minimized. So even if tarifs have to be passed on because there is no additional margin to share (e.g. films), it will most likely be rather in the range of an 8-10% price increase than the full tariff of 20%. I wish everyone a nice Sunday. Here the sun came out. I will go shoot now and stop thinking about tariffs

Even when EU distributors like you are doing effortto compensate - hat off for that - I will stay on EU/UK produced film for now. So no more C41 or E6 colourfilm for now from Kodak for me. I rather support your ADOX brand and other EU/UK brands. It's a pitty for the US manufacturer but I could say the same for Fuji which kills it's film without any tarriff war. Just imagine what they could have done now with their lovely pallet of marvelous films, all killed for higher profit margins.

Andreas Thaler · Sunday at 12:55 PM

rhmimac said:
Even when EU distributors like you are doing effortto compensate - hat off for that - I will stay on EU/UK produced film for now. So no more C41 or E6 colourfilm for now from Kodak for me. I rather support your ADOX brand and other EU/UK brands. It's a pitty for the US manufacturer but I could say the same for Fuji which kills it's film without any tarriff war. Just imagine what they could have done now with their lovely pallet of marvelous films, all killed for higher profit margins.

If film producers can no longer export profitably, this will impact production. And some trusted film brands will likely see their demise because production is no longer profitable. Employees will be laid off, taxes will not be collected, and the economy will be damaged. All of this will scale to a large portion of the global economy. The political and social consequences haven't even been considered.

For my part, I'm glad I don't have to procure anything essential anymore.

koraks · Sunday at 12:58 PM

Gents, one more request to steer clear of general policy commentary. Thanks.

Sirius Glass · Sunday at 1:02 PM

Craig said:
The other thing to consider is the cost and availability of skilled labour. Right now there is zero expertise in building SLR cameras in the USA, while Japan has considerable experience. I can't imagine that Nikon, Canon et al are considerating building a camera factory in the USA and there is zero skilled workers, and zero infrastructure and supplier support compared to Japan.

Cameras are a shrinking market, it makes no sense for Nikon to double their overhead to build another factory in a foreign country and probably turn building cameras from profitable to unprofitable. Instead, USA consumers will simply have to pay more for cameras.

I expect the same can be said for Harman, there is no way they are building another coating factory to make film and paper.

While camera factories could be built in the US, the labor cost could never be lowered enough to make it viable.

AnselMortensen · Sunday at 1:29 PM

I will continue my photographic efforts, tariffs be damned.
If I have to eat LESS instant ramen, so be it.

MattKing · Sunday at 1:32 PM

AnselMortensen said:
I will continue my photographic efforts, tariffs be damned.
If I have to eat LESS instant ramen, so be it.

Someone, somewhere, has probably tried to develop film in instant ramen!

ADOX Fotoimpex · Sunday at 3:26 PM

retina_restoration said:
I will continue to buy Adox products (CHS 100 II and XT-3) no matter what. I want to see Adox thrive.

Thank you!

Alan Edward Klein · Sunday at 3:40 PM

Sirius Glass said:
While camera factories could be built in the US, the labor cost could never be lowered enough to make it viable.

ADOX Fotoimpex said:
I understand that the current situation is not easy, and we all will struggle to adapt. About counter tarifs in the EU, so far nothing has been disclosed, so here we absolutely need to wait and see. As far as our sales in the US are concerned, we are working with our partners to find a solution to the tariff situation. We should all stay calm for a few days and not jump to any conclusions.
One thing I want to send ahead: The tariff is imposed on the purchasing price of the distributor. This is, of course, a lower price than the end user pays in the store. Since everyone is interested to stay in the market, we will all try to do the best to keep the effect minimized. So even if tarifs have to be passed on because there is no additional margin to share (e.g. films), it will most likely be rather in the range of an 8-10% price increase than the full tariff of 20%. I wish everyone a nice Sunday. Here the sun came out. I will go shoot now and stop thinking about tariffs

Foreign film producers could hire Eastman Kodak to make and sell their film here in the US. No tariffs. Adox, are you listening? Can that happen? Have you spoken to Kodak?

Alan Edward Klein · Sunday at 3:43 PM

AnselMortensen said:
I will continue my photographic efforts, tariffs be damned.
If I have to eat LESS instant ramen, so be it.

Isn't ramen made in Japan? Won't it have a tariff too?

Pieter12 · Sunday at 4:03 PM

Alan Edward Klein said:
Foreign film producers could hire Eastman Kodak to make and sell their film here in the US. No tariffs. Adox, are you listening? Can that happen? Have you spoken to Kodak?

Does Kodak have the capacity? Would that make much of a price difference since Kodak will have to mark up the price, plus would the materials need to be imported or will ADOX hand over the formulas?

I think if the tariffs hold, everyone will just have to bite the bullet and pay higher prices. If Kodak sees Ilford and Adox prices go up, they will most probably raise their prices too. Maybe not to match, but still more than they charge now.

Alessandro Serrao · Sunday at 4:11 PM

Andreas Thaler said:
If film producers can no longer export profitably, this will impact production. And some trusted film brands will likely see their demise because production is no longer profitable. Employees will be laid off, taxes will not be collected, and the economy will be damaged. All of this will scale to a large portion of the global economy. The political and social consequences haven't even been considered.

For my part, I'm glad I don't have to procure anything essential anymore.

Luckily here in the EU we are self-sufficient: we have Ferrania, Foma, Ilford (even if not properly EU), Orwo and Adox for films; we have Bellini, Adox, Ilford, Foma for chemistry. Both b&w and colour (Fuji products for example).

koraks · Sunday at 4:22 PM

.

Alessandro Serrao said:
and colour (Fuji products for example).

No mature, dependable color film, though. And Fuji's paper business will take a significant hit due to these tariffs, which will accelerate its inevitable demise.

Besides, the notion of "self sufficiency" is a very big stretch given today's global supply chains.

BobUK · Sunday at 4:31 PM

Alessandro Serrao said:
Luckily here in the EU we are self-sufficient: we have Ferrania, Foma, Ilford (even if not properly EU), Orwo and Adox for films; we have Bellini, Adox, Ilford, Foma for chemistry. Both b&w and colour (Fuji products for example).

I would like to raise the question of self sufficiency in raw photography chemicals.

What countries do the raw, basic chemicals originate from for use in making film, paper, developers, fixers etc..?

The UK and the rest of Europe may have the production facilities for making the finished products, but I doubt between us we produce all of the ingredients.

Interesting topic so far.

BobUK · Sunday at 4:32 PM

@koraks seems to have just beaten me with a similar thought.

Craig · Sunday at 4:33 PM

Alan Edward Klein said:
Foreign film producers could hire Eastman Kodak to make and sell their film here in the US. No tariffs. Adox, are you listening? Can that happen? Have you spoken to Kodak?

I can't imagine Adox wants to disclose their trade secrets and formulas to a competitor. Even if they did, there is additional cost to having a third party coat, package and distribute their products. I suspect that would end up being more expensive than paying a tariff, even if Adox wanted to go that way.

AnselMortensen · Sunday at 5:39 PM

Alan Edward Klein said:
Isn't ramen made in Japan? Won't it have a tariff too?

Yes...yet another reason I'll be eating less of it.

DREW WILEY · Sunday at 5:51 PM

A tariff on incoming goods integrally factors in the cost of goods to a distributor, and will only get compounded with successive markup to subsequent wholesalers then retailers. Rarely is there wiggle room at the actual importer level to outright absorb it. Rather, the general upward cost trend, in this case affecting just about everything mfg outside the US, might become an excuse to leverage even more profit and the distribution level.

The scary question is at what point will yet another straw break the camel's back? - either at the manufacturer's end, or their necessary suppliers and subcontractors - or at our end as purchasers of film and printing paper, finding it harder and harder to afford?

I'm sure glad I'm retired and no longer a professional buyer for a sales firm. Do everything right, and still get hit with a giant monkey wrench thrown by a blindfolded man - what can one do?

Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

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Tariffs and Film and Paper prices

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