The myth of smoothness of leicas

[Pioneer]

There's more than one mode of failure, and mechanical things like Leicas, Hasselblads, and fine watches were designed for periodic service. They're not throwaway tools.

I am well aware of that and I agree with you.

But I don't think that most people are interested in spending $1K to $5K on a camera and then sending it to someone for service every couple of years. Of course I talked with Youxin just recently and he is pretty buried with work so I am probably wrong.

 

[Radost]

+1. This is why I try not to accumulate too many cameras. I’d rather them be in the hands of someone who will actually use them and enjoy them. I have backups of my favorite cameras and I use those every so often as well.

Use it or lose it!

I have too may cameras and backups.
I don’t mind. Its like kids. I have my favorite but I love them all.
ALmost all get to spend some time with me.

 

[Radost]

For the record my Minolta CLE flew outside of my backpack and lended on the 40mm F2 rokkor lens. Camera was fine but lens needed repair because the focus was stiff from the fall.
Same CLE flew of my hand straight in to a door with my 28mm ASPH elmerit and my filter shuttered but both the camera and the lens was good.
I have dropped my voighlander FOlders “closed” and they are good as well.
My my soviet cameras for my grandpa “ leica copies” got stiffer over the years.
I have some very old SLRs that have been great and wind like new.

 

[Radost]

I wish there was a video how to CLA a M3 M2 video somewhere so I can just do it myself.
There is one chinese one but is high speed.

 

[Pioneer]

I have too may cameras and backups.
I don’t mind. Its like kids. I have my favorite but I love them all.
ALmost all get to spend some time with me.

I'm with you. I have been selling cameras over the last few years but I still own too many of them and can't always use them as often as I should. I sold my Leicas for that reason and I sold off all but one of my Spotmatics as well. I have even sold a few cameras I bought as backups to cameras that I do use a lot.

I am not getting any younger so I will soon have to sell a few more of them. It is getting harder to pick the ones I will sell next because I have personal history invested in a lot of them.

I have a few favorite cameras that I still use a lot. But I wish I could find time to use them all. It is a good thing that they are all built so well and keep on working because if I had to send them in for regular service I am afraid they would freeze up solid like a couple of Agfa folders I owned.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Just because some things can now bought relatively cheap, their maintenance will remain that of a complex and expensive product.

 

[brbo]

There's more than one mode of failure, and mechanical things like Leicas, Hasselblads, and fine watches were designed for periodic service.

This comes up often, I must admit that I never could find (and I did try!) any mention of periodic service requirement in Leica's User Manuals for M cameras. Can you help me/us out? It would be quite odd if their cameras required periodic check-ups but they would fail to mention this in any of their manuals.

 

[Axelwik]

This comes up often, I must admit that I never could find (and I did try!) any mention of periodic service requirement in Leica's User Manuals for M cameras. Can you help me/us out? It would be quite odd if their cameras required periodic check-ups but they would fail to mention this in any of their manuals.

It was pretty common knowledge that in a professional setting cameras and lenses should be serviced every 1 to 2 years to ensure their reliability and longevity. That might translate to 5 or 10 years for the average amateur photographer, but that's up to you and your tolerance/consequences for camera failure.

 

[brbo]

Many things are common knowledge in car maintenance, but car manufacturers always, with no exception, publish maintenance details for every car model they make.

Many appliances/devices (consumer or professional) have recommended maintenance plans clearly defined in user manuals. Funny that Leica never ever felt the need to mention vital information that M cameras require periodic service even if there is no apparent issue in operation. Maybe they want their cameras to brake (but as we can see that plan hasn't been working very well)...

 

[GregY]

It was pretty common knowledge that in a professional setting cameras and lenses should be serviced every 1 to 2 years to ensure their reliability and longevity. That might translate to 5 or 10 years for the average amateur photographer, but that's up to you and your tolerance/consequences for camera failure.

Common knowledge to whom? Leica Ms & Nikon Fs & F2s didn't seem to get that memo.....

 

[cerber0s]

My M3 has by far the smoothest wind of my cameras.

 

[Radost]

My M3 has by far the smoothest wind of my cameras.

My 2 M3 DS as well except the very end click that I assume cocks the shutter.

 

[RezaLoghme]

A question: does anyone have an example for said "myth"? is there a famous photographer who spoke about that smoothness for example?

 

[Radost]

A question: does anyone have an example for said "myth"? is there a famous photographer who spoke about that smoothness for example?

Why does it have to be famous?

 

[RezaLoghme]

Well, if my mother would wax lyrically about Leica's alleged smoothness, I guess it would not have led to the creating of such a "myth" as the OP believes it to be. Therefore I am wondering what the source(s) of said myths are, if - for example - some opinion leader, influential critic, reknowned photographer or someone of similar weight - has contributed to that "myth".

 

[brbo]

But if there were hundreds that wax poeticly about their expensive Leicas, that could start a myth, right?

Same as with the absolutely needed regular periodical servicing of cameras that work perfectly fine.

 

[RezaLoghme]

I guess. But I, personally, have read a lot of irrational emotional love for Leicas (and I own one), but never so far about the "smoothness". Hence I am asking...

 

[RezaLoghme]

Same as with the absolutely needed regular periodical servicing of cameras that work perfectly fine.

Maybe its a bit like a car's cambelt - the engine will work perfectly fine until the belt snaps, therefore the belt is to be replaced before that happens.

 

[snusmumriken]

It is the opinion of mothers worldwide that Leicas are smooth.

 

[brbo]

Maybe its a bit like a car's cambelt - the engine will work perfectly fine until the belt snaps, therefore the belt is to be replaced before that happens.

And, AFAIK, when that belt snaps, there are all sorts of problems for the engine that you can't fix with just installing the new belt.

Now, people will tell you that there are all sorts of problems building up in the camera if it isn't lubricated properly and that tens of different parts will be ruined, gears will be stripped in five years if space-tech-lubricants are not replaced every year or two, etc... But reality and Leica's (non-existent) service infrastructure will tell you this is probably another myth. As I said, this comes up often, myths are thrown around and when there is time to back them up... crickets.

I have a drum scanner and people will tell you (and user manual as well) that for proper operation and longevity you need to clean and lubricate parts with proper lubricants. Regularly! I do it. My car has a recommended oil change intervals and other periodic part replacements intervals. I do it. I send my Leicas or any other cameras for service if there is a problem. I've never been informed that any part needed replacement because of wear that could be prevented by spending crazy amounts of money for periodic CLAs.

I would do a check-up on a camera if I was a professional that absolutely needed a camera to work, though. But that’s not what we are talking about here…

 

[Pioneer]

And, AFAIK, when that belt snaps, there are all sorts of problems for the engine that you can't fix with just installing the new belt.

Now, people will tell you that there are all sorts of problems building up in the camera if it isn't lubricated properly and that tens of different parts will be ruined, gears will be stripped in five years if space-tech-lubricants are not replaced every year or two, etc... But reality and Leica's (non-existent) service infrastructure will tell you this is probably another myth. As I said, this comes up often, myths are thrown around and when there is time to back them up... crickets.

I have a drum scanner and people will tell you (and user manual as well) that for proper operation and longevity you need to clean and lubricate parts with proper lubricants. Regularly! I do it. My car has a recommended oil change intervals and other periodic part replacements intervals. I do it. I send my Leicas or any other cameras for service if there is a problem. I've never been informed that any part needed replacement because of wear that could be prevented by spending crazy amounts of money for periodic CLAs.

I would do a check-up on a camera if I was a professional that absolutely needed a camera to work, though. But that’s not what we are talking about here…

I'm not even sure it would work this way. Maybe tearing the camera apart and servicing it to often would work against the camera becoming smoother operating. As gears work, levers are turned, springs are stretched and cams are released against each other and one another they wear and become smoother. The camera begins to break in. Thus, the more a camera is used the smoother the camera becomes. My old screwmount Honeywell Pentax H1a has had more rolls of film through it than I can even guess and that camera operates very quietly and very smoothly. Of course until the shutter fires and the mirror flips up with a thwak! All the parts have become matched perfectly to all the others over time and use.

Now, is it smoother than a Leica M3 that has been used for as long or longer? I don't know. Maybe..maybe not. How do you measure it? Can you measure it? It seems to me that smoothness in operation is somewhat subjective so you are always at the mercy of the users opinion. Maybe an SLR cannot ever be expected to be as smooth as a rangefinder since there are more parts in motion. I will freely admit that my Leica cameras were very nice cameras and worked very well. So does my Contax II. But I never picked one up and tried to measure it against the other. I'm not sure I would even know where to start or what measurements to use.

And then the winding action itself is very dependent on the film and cassette that is used, as Steven Lee said very early in this thread. Using a hand loaded Leica cassette would give an entirely different feel than using a cassette loaded in one of Adox or Ilford's operations. Even the thickness of the film itself can have an effect.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Wouldnt it work even smoother when the metal and rubber parts would be heated up?

 

[Pioneer]

Wouldnt it work even smoother when the metal and rubber parts would be heated up?

Within reason that would likely be true. And if everything was very cold, such as in a northern winter, it would also have an effect. I own a camera that will not even fire the shutter if the temperature is below freezing.

 

[Jim Jones]

Disassembling a Leica for routine maintenance is an invasive procedure, possibly more damaging to the camera than using it without routine maintenance. Since 1953 Leica rangefinder cameras have been my preferred cameras except where through-the-lens viewing or larger formats were more appropriate. None have ever had (or needed) routine maintenance. None have ever failed, even in arctic cold and desert heat, except from extreme abuse. Photographers who must produce results upon demand are certainly justified in relying on preventative maintenance and always having back-up equipment. I have rarely been burdened with this responsibility. Other photographers with different goals and greater responsibilities are justified in much different approaches to routine maintenance. Discussions like this are useful in comparing our experiences with those of others. We each should evaluate our needs and our resources, and act accordingly.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Do we have any camera technicians here?