Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

[albireo]

(Moderators please move where appropriate)

Lately I have been thinking about the range of film Adox has on offer, as opposed to their film processing chemistry.

On the chemistry side - no complaints there. I have been using more and more of their chemistry to develop my film. Their Rodinal is a classic, and IME a notch above other Rodinal recipes around, and I always have a bottle open and ready to go. I would not be without it. I've also recently tried XT-3 and even more recently D76. Fantastic products AFAICS: well packaged, well documented. Adox clearly has the expertise to design, manufacture, package and distribute a top-quality product that easily competes and even outclasses old established players. (One point worth making: I'm in continental Europe so apologies but this discussion is European-customer-centric).

So I could easily see myself dropping all other brands and, going forward, just utilising Adox film processing products.

Now on to film. I shot and exposed my last roll ever of Adox Silvermax last week. I still had some of its dedicated developer. I was once again awestruck by the results. I had been constantly amazed by all the 10 test rolls I had purchased 2 years ago to see what the fuss was all about. Which made the experience slightly bittersweet. Or perhaps I should say frustrating: this film is now discontinued, so I won't be able to adopt it as a long term solution.

I then went to check Adox' website to see what else they've got. In terms of plain BW film I see three products, all of them with abstruse coded names like CHS 100 II, HR-50, CMS 20 X-tra proto etc etc. Not sure what these codes mean. Are those numbers in the film names indicative or not indicative of the film speed? This mix of almost random letters and numbers reminds me of the naming conventions used by Japanese quartz watchmakers of the 80s: think Casio MTP-V006L-1B2 G-shock; Casio Digital Stainless Steel Daily Alarm A158WA-1DF A158WA-1. Sony used a similar approach for their Walkman, their radios, their headphones. Think TPS-L2, LCZ-6-ABC etc etc.

Now if there's one thing that customers like is a simple, easy to remember name. Remember Apple's big breakthrough: Apple Ipod. IPOD. Not Apple A158WMF-MP3. Vaguely Italian- or Hindi- sounding words are even better. Fuji got the message early on. Fuji SENSIA. Fuji ASTIA. PROVIA. VELVIA. If you are into hi-fi headphones, you will have heard about a class of hi-end hifi headphones known as 'planar magnetic'. One big producer is Chinese. Are their products called HifiMan X-WDA-CX2? No. They're called HifiMan SUNDARA, ANANDA, SUSVARA. Easy to remember, easy to google for 'Hifiman Sundara Review' or 'Hifiman Sundara Best Prices near me'. etc etc.

So that's one thing off my chest. The naming. What should I choose for my next order from Photoimpex, Adox? 10 rolls of 'Fomapan 100'? 2 rolls of TMAX? 1 roll of Velvia? Or 10 rolls of ... CHM-S 100 plus II? Partially joking here, but you get the gist of it.

But going back to Silvermax (where they had gotten the catchy name right). My next issue with Adox' film offer is continuity. Following my short lived honeymoon with Silvermax, I'm just not sure if I should commit or invest testing time and resources to a product for which the window of existence is unclear. Is Adox going to keep making their HRX-50-W//* film long term? Is it going to disappear at some point? Because in that case I'd rather keep shooting Foma 100 and Kentmere 400, they've been around for a while and hopefully they're not only leftovers from an old master roll which has been repackaged and resold. Not all of us in the younger generation of film users are trying the novelty stuff, couple of rolls, mention on instagram, then off to the next new thing. I like to thoroughly learn how to extract the best from 1/2/3 film types and then stick to those for years. So I will prefer a product which I know will exist in 5 years time. Or 10.

One final moan: I'd like to see a better film range from Adox. If I understand correctly, they have a 100 ISO product, a 50 ISO product, and a 20 ISO product. Now I'm going to have to put a big fat X on the 20 ISO stuff, and to a certain extent on the 50 ISO stuff. I'm not interested the slightest in ultra resolution, ultra low sensitivity stuff: I don't have time to use my tripod and I take pictures while walking or on the run. I live in northern Europe, the light is often poor or not intense, and low sensitivity handheld is pretty useless for me. I also shoot film because I like well exposed, well developed, well scanned film grain, and if I didn't want grain at all I'd buy a digital camera and use that for easy to achieve uber-clean images. But that's just me. The fact that I could get 34545354 lines/mm if I shot Adox H-2-bis-20 in Spur Acurplus-ST means absolutely nothing to me.

So I'm left with a 100 iso 35mm product. Meh. I shoot 120 too. How about a 120 version? How about a mainstream, solid, affordable classically panchromatic 400 ISO product to compete with Kentmere 400 and Foma 400? If you want to push the boat out, how about an e.g. innovative tabular grain 800 ISO that puts TMAX 400 to shame?

So - long winded bitter/sweet love letter for Adox. I love what you do, but you could go even higher. You have the skill, the talent. Simpify, rationalise, expand your film offer. As a thought exercise, how about a range of high quality products, catchy names, long term support, easy to develop optimally in most mainstream developers (no obscure dedicated developer please), eg your new, brilliant D76?

There you go:

Adox Bremen 100
Adox Lübeck 400
Adox Hamburg 800

Job done!

 

[Frank53]

+1

 

[Tom Kershaw]

So I'm left with a 100 iso 35mm product. Meh. I shoot 120 too. How about a 120 version?

Adox have mentioned on this forum on numerous occasions that they are currently unable to produce 120 film.

 

[miha]

When Silvermax was introduced (in 2004?) ADOX made it clear it's going to be one big run only.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

No: -1!

The old (very old now) CHS100 was my usual film for quite a while. In case you don't know, there are more codes to know about it. CHS100 was re-branded KB100 from Ekfe (KB for Kleinbild, 100 for the speed), and there was CHS50 and CHS25 too, until Efke's plant broke. Maybe I'm childish, enjoying being in on a not-very-secret code, but I like them more than names trying to romance me, perhaps meant to capture the art I might aspire to.

I was genuinely grateful that Adox made the effort to re-formulate the most-used of those films; and I think it's good that they named it CHS100 II, stressing continuity with what I was used to buying.

I never bought any Silvermax, and now I think about it, I suspect in part that was because of the name; it actually brags about how much silver I would be consuming; like petrol called Carbonmax, or chocolate called Fatmax.

 

[grain elevator]

I seem to recall a statement from Adox that the ISO 400 market was saturated. But I'm in the same boat as the OP, using mostly ISO 400 and feel that medium speed films are more abundant. What do we have in ISO 400? Tmax and Tri-X, Delta 400, HP5+, Ilford Pan and Kentmere 400. All good to excellent, but that's it. Fomapan 400 is marginal, it's slower than 400. Orwo N74/75 is no more, apparently. The Kodak films are way expensive in Europe now, so nearly out of the equation. There might be some space to compete with Harman with something perhaps a bit finer grained than HP5+ if at that price level, or with better anti halation and sharper grain if at the price level of Kentmere 400. Maybe that's not feasable due to prohibitive R&D cost. Delta is hard to beat except on price.

 

[miha]

CHS stands for Cubiccrystal Heterodispers Single-Layer, a name made-up by ADOX

 

[JensH]

Nothing to complain here, except the missing 120s.
Used and liked the CHS100II 120 a lot.
Ok, one more film: a IR820 would be nice...

 

[albireo]

Maybe I'm childish, enjoying being in on a not-very-secret code, but I like them more than names trying to romance me, perhaps meant to capture the art I might aspire to.

Adox Bremen 100
Adox Lübeck 400
Adox Hamburg 800

Do the above names sound romantic to you? How about

Adox Milton-Keynes 100
Adox Slough 400
Adox Ayr 800

Better? Same concept. My point wasn't that naming should be romantic, rather that it should be mnemonic.

 

[Anon Ymous]

This mix of almost random letters and numbers reminds me of...

Ilford's film range. FP4 Plus, HP5 Plus, Delta 100/400/3200...

If it's good and reasonably priced, people will buy it. I personally don't mind at all, their naming is ok.

 

[albireo]

Ilford's film range. FP4 Plus, HP5 Plus, Delta 100/400/3200...

Fair enough, but

• Ilford has a 70 year history of using those codes, almost unchanged. They're now part of photo history.
• It's a much bigger film producer that doesn't need to establish itself amongst legions of social-media aware photographers as much as (arguably) Adox.
• Repeat with me the name of their most recent, innovative line of products. Delta. Delta. Delta. Pan F. Delta. Rolls nicely on the toungue

 

[Lachlan Young]

FP = FIne Grain Panchromatic
HP = Hypersensitive Panchromatic
Delta = distinctive shape of Ilford's type of high aspect ratio crystals used in controlled crystal growth emulsions - produced in a manner that was innovative enough to patent.

Adox's names probably derive from similarly form-follows-functional-names formats.

Adox have been pretty clear that the 400 speed BW market is rather saturated, at least at the price point that the noisiest (who have, I've found, an inverse relationship to quantities of film bought) want to pay. At this distance, we tend to forget that most manufacturers really only produced 2-3 general purpose B&W emulsions across a range of speeds until the end of the 1980s/ early 90s (much of the rest of the often diverse portfolio of BW emulsions having wider industrial/ govermental/ institutional purposes outside of fine-art or amateur/ hobbyist usage) - and that the idea was that Tmax and Delta would replace their predecessors in the manner that Agfa did with APX - except that markets & very efficient production demanded & enabled the retention of other emulsions too. If Ilford and Kodak only made one 400 speed B&W film each, Adox would likely be making a 400 speed B&W too - and what became the Inoviscoat produced, APX derived 400 speed BW sold by Lomography & Bergger, seems to have had a genesis in attempts to Tri-X-ify APX 400 about the time that Kodak went through chapter 11. I'd rather Adox were able to focus their energies on getting their 120 packager running - CHS II in 120 first, then the rest can follow...

 

[Dustin McAmera]

The old CHS100 films were being made in Croatia (by Efke, for Adox) from about 1990 (in fact from 1990: see https://www.adox.de/Photo/discontinued-products/ ) - so that's thirty years of establishment; and the recipes for those films were I think from the original Adox company anyway, so I guess maybe from the 50s. Their history of using those names is as good as Ilford's.
They're not consistent though: there's Scala as well as Silvermax, and there has been Color Implosion and Color Mission. Incidentally, I hadn't picked up before that Silvermax was an attempt to recreate the original recipe for Agfa APX100 - I might have bought some if I'd known!

Pan F isn't recent at all (or is that your point?) - it dates back to the 1930s, according to the blurb at AG Photographic.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Re Ilford names, I think FP is Fine-grained Panchromatic, and HP is Hypersensitive Panchromatic: see here: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/FP_labels.html and here: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/HP3_Films_Plates.html

 

[Lachlan Young]

Re Ilford names, I think FP is Fine-grained Panchromatic, and HP is Hypersensitive Panchromatic: see here: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/FP_labels.html and here: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Ilford/HP3_Films_Plates.html

Yeah, corrected them - I think Pan-F was increasingly aimed at the moderately advanced hobbyist market, rather than professional users who would be using a generally larger format in the first place.

 

[runswithsizzers]

I suppose it is pointless to say so, but I am another one who tried Adox Silvermax film, really liked it, and was disappointed when I discovered I could get no more of it.

Likewise, Adox Scala 160 is apparently no more. When Adox Scala 160 was available, any kind of off-the-shelf reversal chemisty kit was very hard to find in the US. Ironically, now that the Adox and Foma reversal kits seem to finally be more-or-less available in the US, Scala 160 is not.

 

[retina_restoration]

This moaning about product names is hilarious.

 

[JPD]

Do the above names sound romantic to you? How about

Adox Milton-Keynes 100
Adox Slough 400
Adox Ayr 800

Better? Same concept. My point wasn't that naming should be romantic, rather that it should be mnemonic.

A range of Adox films with the following names would be both:

Adox Adopan 25
Adox Adopan 100
Adox Adopan 400

Speciality films could have an extra letter, like 'D' for Document film.

Romantic as in classic sounding names, and easy to remember.

 

[JPD]

This moaning about product names is hilarious.

I would moan and complain forever if films had modern car-style names like "Vectra", "Fiesta", "Venusia", "Toiletta", "Nonsensa".

"Scala" and "Velvia" are bad enough.

 

[faberryman]

I would moan and complain forever if films had modern car-style names like "Vectra", "Fiesta", "Venusia", "Toiletta", "Nonsensa".

"Scala" and "Velvia" are bad enough.

Films do have dumb names, to wit: most of the rebranded films. So few films; so many names. It's hard to keep up with what's what.

 

[Pioneer]

I think the most important thing I would like is for Adox to stay in business. I think that they are doing a great job with the slow speed films that they produce now. Those are the ones I'm regularly buying from them, along with some of their chemicals, so I hope they keep that up. I also suspect that those films are likely the ones that are contributing to their profit stream. Higher speed black and white films seem pretty well represented around the world by Kodak, Ilford and Foma, that is not necessarily true of the low speed films they specialize in. I think that they need to be really careful about putting a ton of their money into something that puts them in direct competition with those manufacturers. I tried Silvermax and liked it, but it didn't stop me from buying Kodak TMX 100. Even Fuji, which arguably had the premier range of color reversal films, has reduced their product lines to films that contribute to the bottom line.

Don't get me wrong, I like Adox. I think they are pretty well run and seem to be pretty savvy with their marketing. One of the areas where they seem to be trying to expand is in their color film offerings. As a black and white film aficionado you may not care about that side of the business but I suspect that is a part of the market where there is room to expand in Europe...and the United States. I know their first coating was done by another company that went out of business and they are looking at doing it all on their own. I wish them luck on this venture and hope it works out.

And when they get successful with their color film, and I suspect they will, I hope they don't forget us little black and white photographers who helped give them a start.

 

[MattKing]

It is quite interesting to observe what engages people's interests.
I much prefer the ADOX choices to things like "WonderPan", but names like that probably aren't directed toward me.

 

[albireo]

A range of Adox films with the following names would be both:

Adox Adopan 25
Adox Adopan 100
Adox Adopan 400

Speciality films could have an extra letter, like 'D' for Document film.

Romantic as in classic sounding names, and easy to remember.

Great idea!

 

[albireo]

I think the most important thing I would like is for Adox to stay in business. I think that they are doing a great job with the slow speed films that they produce now. Those are the ones I'm regularly buying from them, along with some of their chemicals, so I hope they keep that up. I also suspect that those films are likely the ones that are contributing to their profit stream. Higher speed black and white films seem pretty well represented around the world by Kodak, Ilford and Foma, that is not necessarily true of the low speed films they specialize in. I think that they need to be really careful about putting a ton of their money into something that puts them in direct competition with those manufacturers. I tried Silvermax and liked it, but it didn't stop me from buying Kodak TMX 100. Even Fuji, which arguably had the premier range of color reversal films, has reduced their product lines to films that contribute to the bottom line.

Thanks for the cogent reply. So you mean Adox has their great niche. They probably do. The question in my tongue-in-cheek post was, in a way - can they push themselves out of this (perhaps) 'comfort zone'. If so how? Based on their chemistry, they have all it takes to think bigger. Just my opinion.

 

[Steven Lee]

My understanding is that ADOX's primary difficulty is meeting demand, so I assume that the product marketing is not their top concern. But if it was, my feedback would be to give CHS II a purpose. Whom are they marketing it to? The first thing you see on their page is: "We have tried to match CHS 100 II as closely as possible to CHS 100 type I featuring: a rock solid classic emulsion system which has been out there for decades and a sensitization close the one of the old CHS 100".

Basically it's aimed at those who remember the original CHS 100. And that's also why they kept the name. Would be nice to explain to everybody else the benefits they'd get from trying this film.