Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

[Pioneer]

My understanding is that ADOX's primary difficulty is meeting demand, so I assume that the product marketing is not their top concern. But if it was, my feedback would be to give CHS II a purpose. Whom are they marketing it to? The first thing you see on their page is: "We have tried to match CHS 100 II as closely as possible to CHS 100 type I featuring: a rock solid classic emulsion system which has been out there for decades and a sensitization close the one of the old CHS 100".

Basically it's aimed at those who remember the original CHS 100. And that's also why they kept the name. Would be nice to explain to everybody else the benefits they'd get from trying this film.

A bit off topic and I am not really looking for another iso 100 film, but I may need to try 5 or 10 rolls to see if it offers anything useful.

 

[removedacct3]

A bit off topic and I am not really looking for another iso 100 film, but I may need to try 5 or 10 rolls to see if it offers anything useful.

Have you seen this article? It may very well help you decide whether or not the film has something in store that is worth investigating.

Adox CHS 100 II: First Look

Film & silver gelatin darkroom blog covering analogue or analog photography, printing and equipment. Ilford, Kodak, Adox, Olympus, Leica, Rolleiflex.

onlinedarkroom.blogspot.com

 

[Henning Serger]

Now on to film. I shot and exposed my last roll ever of Adox Silvermax last week. I still had some of its dedicated developer. I was once again awestruck by the results. I had been constantly amazed by all the 10 test rolls I had purchased 2 years ago to see what the fuss was all about. Which made the experience slightly bittersweet. Or perhaps I should say frustrating: this film is now discontinued, so I won't be able to adopt it as a long term solution.

Just continue with ADOX CHS 100 II.
Because it is very similar to Silvermax: The spectral sensitization is almost identical, sharpness and resolution as well.
CHS 100 II has a bit coarser grain.
In a blind test you will really have difficulties to differentiate the both. I have that situation often with my Silvermax and CHS 100 II pictures: I have to look at my notices of the prints to see from which film the prints were made.

I then went to check Adox' website to see what else they've got. In terms of plain BW film I see three products, all of them with abstruse coded names like CHS 100 II, HR-50, CMS 20 X-tra proto etc etc. Not sure what these codes mean.

Simple:
CHS 100 II was the successor of long established CHS 100.
CMS 20 II was the successor of long established CMS 20.
HR-50: High Resolution film with ISO 50/18°.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

Just continue with ADOX CHS 100 II.
Because it is very similar to Silvermax: The spectral sensitization is almost identical, sharpness and resolution as well.
CHS 100 II has a bit coarser grain.
In a blind test you will really have difficulties to differentiate the both. I have that situation often with my Silvermax and CHS 100 II pictures: I have to look at my notices of the prints to see from which film the prints were made.

By the way:
Also both films have a characteristic curve which flattens a bit in the highlight zones with a (semi)compensating developer like FX-39 II.
That is very helpful in higher contrast scenes (see the first three pictures below, which all had a high object contrast due to the light situation).

Here just some examples of Silvermax and CHS 100 II in a blind test:
Try to identify which photo is from which film :

 

[Prest_400]

Well, Adox Pan 400 existed in the form of test product and as another member exposed in this thread, not pursued for general production due to the well established competition.

The other day I was thinking amusingly about how many films were named, not Adox but former products like the Fujicolor pro CN lines in the 2000s and Agfachrome. NPH, NPC, NPZ. 160C, 160N, 160NS... This post exemplifies it: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/220-film-question.183945/post-2418905
But aside of that, it's not a major annoyance to me. Heck, Fomapan has Classic, Creative and Action as moniker for their main panchromatic films and nobody uses those names.

I would like to use CHS100II in 120 as well as Polywarmtone (in sheets that is). At the end of the day, it's a small miracle that Adox has been able to save different bits, being living legacy of Agfa, Forte and Efke... and they are just a small company with many projects and challenges.
A bit of color film happens (note that it was named Color Mission and Helios!) despite the many issues.

 

[Pioneer]

To me the color film project is one of the most exciting irons that ADOX has on the fire right now. I love and use most of their back and white offerings but the black and white community is pretty small compared to the amount of color film that people still use. I could be wrong but I do believe that if ADOX can tap that market and get a good color film out there it could completely change that company overnight.

 

[Pioneer]

By the way:
Also both films have a characteristic curve which flattens a bit in the highlight zones with a (semi)compensating developer like FX-39 II.
That is very helpful in higher contrast scenes (see the first three pictures below, which all had a high object contrast due to the light situation).

Here just some examples of Silvermax and CHS 100 II in a blind test:
Try to identify which photo is from which film :

This film does look interesting and what I find particularly interesting is that it is available in 3.25 x 6.25 sheets. I ordered a box today to play with in my Baby Speed so I'll find out soon if it is worth my time.

Edit: now I need to find a couple of those models that Henning is working with.... Like that one at the beginning of the series.

 

[Peter Schrager]

You want old style just buy foma

 

[albireo]

You want old style just buy foma

But I don't just want old style. Did you read my (admittedly long winded) post in full? You probably didn't and it's ok. It was a light hearted, very personal rant after all.

Allow me to expand further - perhaps provocatively, with a bit of a hyperbole.

On the chemistry side, Adox is showing it can make formerly big players (Kodak) essentially redundant for most amateur film photography needs this side of the pond.

Can it do the same with film? Kodak film is by now incredibly overpriced in Europe for what it does. Fewer and fewer people use it on a daily basis. TriX basically lives off its 'myth' amongst an increasingly smaller target customer base who is still enamoured with the stuff because a generation of legendary photographers used little else.

Can Adox attempt to jump on the opportunity and match some aspects of Kodak's offer? Does it want to? Can it improve on it? They can make a great D76. They can make a great Xtol. They can even make a great 35mm FP4+ competitor with their CHS product, based on what I understand from people who use it.

My opinion is that Adox should now think big and engage in mythopoesis. Generate a legend for the new film generation. In 60 years, if film photography still exists (and I'm sure it will) will Adox be the company that has made the 'legendary' e.g. Adopan 800 product that all 70 year olds in 2080 fondly remember as a fabulous film for people who have picked up the hobby in e.g. 2010.

Or do they want to keep making film for finely textured reproductions of coins and Victorian post stamps?

Of course - I know nothing of the 'behind the scenes'. Much less than the well-informed people on here. Is Adox just surviving and operating with cobbled-together machinery on a shoe-string budget? @Steven Lee suggests they have difficulty meeting demand. Is that so? Don't know. Then it's another matter altogether.

Again purely my personal opinion.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

I know nothing of the 'behind the scenes'. Much less than the well-informed people on here. Is Adox just surviving and operating with cobbled-together machinery on a shoe-string budget?

A lot of this is around for you to read, in pages at Adox' ( https://www.adox.de/Photo/category/news-en/ ) and/or Fotoimpex' sites, old posts here, and at other fora like photo.net, and maybe at Flickr.

I don't think you can compare the chemicals part of the business with film. I'm not saying that blending and packing powders and solutions is easy, but it isn't the delicate manufacturing job that coating film is.

 

[Henning Serger]

This film does look interesting and what I find particularly interesting is that it is available in 3.25 x 6.25 sheets. I ordered a box today to play with in my Baby Speed so I'll find out soon if it is worth my time.

Edit: now I need to find a couple of those models that Henning is working with.... Like that one at the beginning of the series.

Dan, no problem at all:
Just visit good old northern Germany, and I will arrange a photoshoot with her for you , and several other outstanding modeIs . I can also offer you lots of amazing locations here including three unique old castles with wonderful architecture and gardens, and a 130m³ photo studio with a lab, so developing films (and making prints) just directly after the photoshoots won't also be a problem.
Maybe some other photrio members would also like to join in....no problem, you are all welcome!

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Henning Serger]

I don't think you can compare the chemicals part of the business with film. I'm not saying that blending and packing powders and solutions is easy, but it isn't the delicate manufacturing job that coating film is.

Exactly.
As someone who has visited lots of different film and photo chemistry manufacturers I can ensure you that the challenges of film manufacturing are really much, much bigger compared to photo chemistry production.

Best regards,
Henning

 

[Dustin McAmera]

3.25 x 6.25 sheets

3¼x4¼ maybe? Or are those models really tall?

 

[titrisol]

CHS100 was a nice film, different from EFKE KB100 but kept the same look.

 

[retina_restoration]

CHS 100 II is a great film, no matter what you call it. I don't think Adox needs to jump on the "call-it-something-pan" wagon when they have their own distinct naming scheme that has a history and preserves a legacy. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Pioneer]

3¼x4¼ maybe? Or are those models really tall?

Obviously I got my numbers a little out of whack. This is my wife balances the checkbook.

Should have been 2.25 x 3.25 or 6x9 sheets. LOL. At least BH Photo got it right.

 

[GregY]

Adox film is hardly worth talking about in North America. We haven't seen Silvermax or CHS 100 in i don't know how long.

 

[brbo]

Adox film is hardly worth talking about in North America. We haven't seen Silvermax or CHS 100 in i don't know how long.

How do you expect NA to get films that have been discontinued for a while now?

 

[GregY]

How do you expect NA to get films that have been discontinued for a while now?

CHS100-ll still shows on their website.... As far as i'm concerned Adox films are a thing of the past. I'm thankful that Kodak & Ilford films are continuously available.

 

[brbo]

CHS100-ll still shows on their website....

Not CHS 100.

Anyway, I guess there is a buy button near that CHS 100 II on their website. And since you are a LF shooter, I believe Freestyle has 4x5 and 5x7 in stock.

 

[GregY]

Not CHS 100.

Anyway, I guess there is a buy button near that CHS 100 II on their website.

Like i said originally......not available in N America. As a photographer working in BW I'm not going to add international shipping to the already high cost of film. For those in Europe...good that you have it...it's fine film....(for as long as it remains available)

 

[Agulliver]

B&H seem to have Adox films in stock so what's this about them being a thing of the past in North America?

I thought it was always explicitly stated that Silvermax was going to be a one-run film and once it was all sold....it was all sold...Mirko has been very clear about this all along. Indeed I don't think there's anyone else in the film industry who is as open as Mirko.

 

[GregY]

B&H seem to have Adox films in stock so what's this about them being a thing of the past in North America?

I thought it was always explicitly stated that Silvermax was going to be a one-run film and once it was all sold....it was all sold...Mirko has been very clear about this all along. Indeed I don't think there's anyone else in the film industry who is as open as Mirko.

They only have 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheet film. CMS-20 & Scala. I have no use for those. So no 100 or 400 iso films in 35 and no 120 film at all.
"I'm just not sure if I should commit or invest testing time and resources to a product for which the window of existence is unclear...." well said Albireo

 

[brbo]

As a photographer working in BW I'm not going to add international shipping to the already high cost of film.

This film is produced in Europe. How do you expect it to appear in North America without international shipping?! Do you think the rest of the world somehow gets Kodak film without shipping costs?

There was a thread about cheap colour film. See how many of Europeans complained about shipping costs (shipping for film from OP was about 3x as expensive as from Fotoimpex to USA).

 

[JPD]

CHS 100 II is a great film, no matter what you call it. I don't think Adox needs to jump on the "call-it-something-pan" wagon when they have their own distinct naming scheme that has a history and preserves a legacy. It makes perfect sense.

I agree with that despite my "Adopan" idea. There is no need to change a name that works and everyone is used to. Even if it was renamed "Adopan 100" there would be someone wishing it was called "Adorthopan 100" instead, or that they should have kept the old name.

The Efke films were renamed a couple of times, for example R14 became R20 and then R25. It continued to be the same legendary film even though I would have preferred that they kept the R14 name.