MattKing
Moderator
Yes - use acetic acid based stop bath
The mould problem (plus higher cost) is the downside of citric acid based stop baths.
I expect that if there was a solution for the problem it would already have been marketed.
Yes - use acetic acid based stop bathIs there any preservative that can be added to the stop bath, to stop the above happening, and thus avoid having to constantly drain and refill a Nova, which are bought to partly avoid this?
Fixer is the most expensive component chemical in my darkroom. I don't know why I'd ever consider contaminating it with developer by avoiding an acid stop bath. .... I make the rules!
I'm sure it is no big deal for you to load up those extra bottles! But not everyone's processor can hold the extra bottles of water. It is great to experiment, be sure to control your test and use your own film.Amazingly, water stop is the solution that always protects totally the fixer, even you may dump two or three times the water in the tank if you want, so you only put totally clean wet film in the fixer, no contamination of the fixer, never.
This is not the case of acid stop when using an akaline fixer... if using an acid stop you may contaminate an alkalne fixer with the acid from the stop that film will bring. Anyway, of course, it will work.
But not everyone's processor can hold the extra bottles of water.
After almost 70 yrs I know it’s stop bath. At the moment brain and finger not working together. Don’t think I cam blame this one on iPad.
- Acetic acid is not fixer but is only a stop bath.
- At one point I did the math, because I am that cheap. A tray of 2% acetic acid stop bath, regardless of the source, is about the same price, whether you use household 5% vinegar, 28%, or glacial.
- Citric acid in all it's forms is more per tray with less capacity per liter of working solution. And you can't (or shouldn't) save a tray of diluted citric acid stop (even if using a commercial preparation with an indicator) because stuff grows in it.
Blame the iPad, I do, and I don't own an iPad.After almost 70 yrs I know it’s stop bath. At the moment brain and finger not working together. Don’t think I cam blame this one on iPad.
Of course, as noted glacial acetic acid takes up a lot less storage space.
...Developer in the emulsion of the film doesn't fully wash out till the washing step after fixation. If you want, test this by water stopping your film for 30 sec. or so, transferring it to an alkaline fixer and immediately turning on the room lights. You'll get some fog or streaking from reactivated developer acting on the newly exposed, yet unfixed halides....
Best,
Doremus
I test my development but would not find a 30 seconds difference to be significant in development time. Though my time-CI chart can tell me to the nearest 15 seconds, that’s not a critical time to me. I sometimes roll across the lines of the crosswalk.Glacial acetic is a hazard, better mixing it outdoors.
If you calibrate your film you will see that a plain water stop bath delivers the same result. With plain water developement needs a few seconds more to totally stop, so you may shorten development some 5 to 10 seconds for a perfect match.
Generally plain water is better because you don't carry chem to the fixer (that can be alkaline!), you dump the water every time so it does not accumulate developer like a reused stop bath.
I test my development but would not find a 30 seconds difference to be significant in development time. Though my time-CI chart can tell me to the nearest 15 seconds, that’s not a critical time to me. I sometimes roll across the lines of the crosswalk.
My take on Vinegar as Stop will depend on which I have more of. If you are going to use vinegar, buy a gallon - you will go through it fast.
Also like that orange indicator color that turns purple after using it.
What happens if you do the same experiment except using an acid stop?
No.So basically this is a:
Ford vs Chevy
Nikon vs Canon
Sail vs Power
Vanilla vs Chocolate
Cat vs Dog
Over vs Under
...kind of conversation?
No.
It is a conversation about obtaining reliable and repeatable, high quality results. And in some situations, it is about maximizing the effective use of materials while minimizing costs.
And in some cases about how to get good results when you have difficulty obtaining some materials.
And in some cases about which materials work well with others, and which don't.
But Christopher, that wasn't the initial question.Sure it's about all that, but in the end, you dont HAVE to drive a ford, shoot a nikon, sail a boat, eat vanilla, own a dog, or put the toilet paper on in the "over" orientation. There's a whole multitude of combinations that pretty much all come down to personal taste and preferences.
ETA: Because no one has given a hard "no" to the question of using vinegar as a stop bath. They've just provided reasons why THEY prefer to do so, or not to do so.
This (as long as you are referring to acetic acid based stop bath). Although there is the additional advantage that distilled white vinegar is normally more widely available on your neighbourhood store shelves.I'm coming into this late, but as far as I'm concerned, the only difference between diluting white distilled vinegate 1+1 with water, and using standard stop bath at 2.5% concentration is the indicator dye -- and the cost.
But Christopher, that wasn't the initial question.
The question was "For those who have garnered consistent results from using vinegar in film/print processing, what type (cider, distilled white, etc.) is recommended, and should it be diluted or not?"
So people answered the question, and added discussion about the use of stop bath in general. Given the number of people who are under the misunderstanding that there is no difference between using stop bath and using water, the discussion is helpful.
I'm a bit embarased to invest my time on this thread, but no one has really answered the question which comes to my mind: Why? Vinagar comes in various strengths which have to be sorted out. Unlike stop bath, it does not contain an indicator dye to tell you when it is exhausted, allowing making stop bath more efficient. If I was 200 miles up the Congo and had a choice of using river water or vinagar, I could see a point. Sacrameno isn't that far off the beaten path.
More and more, people are having difficulty accessing photo chemicals except through the internet, because many areas don't have local stores any more.I'm a bit embarased to invest my time on this thread, but no one has really answered the question which comes to my mind: Why?
It depends. If it is what we call malt vinegar in the U.K. then there is danger after 35 years of forming a compulsion for constantly entering fish and chip shops.I've used store bought vinegar, diluted down 90% in water as my fixer for the past 35 years. Have I been doing it wrong?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?