Harman Photo cryptic announcement/teaser

[Prest_400]

I'm way more excited about CHS100 in 120. And I like how Adox did it. Just drop the message. No teasing. And just making use of all the people waiting from another new film from a competitor, in 3 days

Me too, but it's a different scope because it is more of a reintroduction that unfortunately ran into so many hurdles. Kudos to both Harman and Adox for the interest and efforts on film however!

The colour rendering/ sensitivity being a bit wayward seems to be where the hints are pointing. If you dig up Ron's Colour System Engineering posts, you can see where the evolutionary steps run. From here, Harman's organic chemists will likely need to start producing more customised components (which gets expensive very very fast) to get it zeroed in. It may well be that Ilford has done this as an experiment to see where the couplers etc that they already make would get a colour film to, and Phoenix is being run up the flagpole to gauge demand before they go full steam ahead on making chemicals that would be needed to solve any weirdnesses.

+1 on that. And it does not even have to be color. Adox have shared quite a bit on what they have been up to and Silvermax was manufactured with Agfa legacy components that IIRC would be too uneconomical to synthesize now. And Ferrania's halted E6 was also due to the legacy chemicals not being good anymore.
The most interesting parallel is Orwo/Inovis. The plant has been manufacturing color for Polaroid for a long time and supposedly there is a lot of ex Agfa capital (both human and material) yet we see how they are iterating and reiterating; perhaps their NC200 will be much more similar to Agfa consumer film from the 90s.
It will be interesting to see how things advance.

 

[George Mann]

Then there are issues with how it has been dried after processing.

And any competent scan system (or enlarger) is plenty capable of holding it flat.

Yes. But 99% of scanners fail to scan ColorPlus cleanly, and with proper color and contrast.

The Fuji Frontier series are the only scanners I have seen that do justice to this film, being very clean and smooth, with dead on color accuracy.

 

[koraks]

I'm unclear on where exactly this potential 'quality differential' (if present) might lie.

Perhaps extended red sensitivity or enhanced for scanning.

Maskless
Very spikey spectral sensitivity
Pronounced dip in yellow sensitivity

 

[brbo]

Yes. But 99% of scanners fail to scan ColorPlus cleanly, and with proper color and contrast.

The Fuji Frontier series are the only scanners I have seen that do justice to this film, being very clean and smooth, with dead on color accuracy.

I fail to see a meaningful difference in general colour/contrast accuracy between Fortier and Noritsu scans...

Frontier

vs.

Noritsu


Even if you regard Nortisu scans to be failed, Frontier scans are just as bad enough that, if those scans are absolutely true representation of photographed subjects, I don't want to visit places or meet people in those scans.

(full disclosure; I actually generally prefer Frontier scans to Noritsu/Pakon/Agfa lab scans)

 

[0x001688936CA08]

The Fuji Frontier series are the only scanners I have seen that do justice to this film, being very clean and smooth, with dead on color accuracy.

I haven't seen any Noritsu or Frontier scan that I would describe in such a way. Not saying Frontier/Noritsu scans terrible, but minilab scanners were engineered for good enough results in volume, and the results are just that.

 

[mshchem]

Get back to the Phoenix!

 

[George Mann]

I fail to see a meaningful difference in general colour/contrast accuracy between Fortier and Noritsu scans...

Frontier

vs.

Noritsu


Even if you regard Nortisu scans to be failed, Frontier scans are just as bad enough that, if those scans are absolutely true representation of photographed subjects, I don't want to visit places or meet people in those scans.

(full disclosure; I actually generally prefer Frontier scans to Noritsu/Pakon/Agfa lab scans)

There have been a few technicians that can maximise the quality of output from these scanners.

Only then is the difference clearly visible.

 

[George Mann]

Get back to the Phoenix!

This sounds like a reasonable request.

 

[Brad Deputy]

Yes. But 99% of scanners fail to scan ColorPlus cleanly, and with proper color and contrast.

This is not my experience. With a Plustek 8100ai and Silverfast 9, I can get more accurate colors on ColorPlus than with Gold 200. Contrast is easily tamed just like any other color negative, and the small downside is color behaviors in the shadows and slightly worse grain. Every film has its quirks.

 

[Brad Deputy]

This sounds like a reasonable request.

Yes, back to the Phoenix!

 

[George Mann]

Yes, back to the Phoenix!

The biggest question on my mind is if and when it will be available in 120.

 

[macfred]

Ilford Ilfocolor 400 Vintage Tone Farbfilm 135-24

Dieser Film ähnelt im Look dem der Ilford Ilfocolor Rapid Single Use Camera Film, welcher den Bildern einen stilvollen, verwaschenen Look verleiht,…

www.macodirect.de

 

[koraks]

@macfred that's the other Ilford. The present film is to be released under the new Harman Photo brand. 'Ilford' won't be on the box.

 

[Dustin McAmera]

Maybe Harman can be persuaded to join in Ilford's ULF campaign, and make some Phoenix in bizarre exotic sizes like 120 (and quarter-plate?) once a year, if you promise to buy enough of it.

 

[0x001688936CA08]

... make some Phoenix in bizarre exotic sizes like 120 ... once a year

Hopefully they make it year round. A new colour negative in sheets would also be quite amazing.

 

[George Mann]

and make some Phoenix in bizarre exotic sizes like 120

120 is a bizarre size? If this is the case, it must be why only a select few of their offerings are available in it (none of which I particularly care for).

Imagine my gall in wanting them to release Pan 100 in 120?!

 

[Dustin McAmera]

120 is a bizarre size?

That's irony, the language we speak in England.

I'm sure Harman will be delighted to make the new film in 120 size if they think they can sell enough of it, and if they can keep up with demand.

 

[mshchem]

Maybe Harman can be persuaded to join in Ilford's ULF campaign, and make some Phoenix in bizarre exotic sizes like 120 (and quarter-plate?) once a year, if you promise to buy enough of it.

Heck yes! That's the beauty of this is that the possibility of "reasonable" priced color sheets may be on the horizon. I would love to make some 11x14 contact prints.

 

[miha]

Imagine my gall in wanting them to release Pan 100 in 120?!

Pan 100 as Ilford Pan 100? Well I use to shoot a lot of it, but it has been discontinued in 120 at least a decade ago

Now back to Phoenix.

 

[koraks]

Maybe Harman can be persuaded to join in Ilford's ULF campaign

It's the same company.

 

[Agulliver]

Back to Phoenix. If some users want to bash Color Plus, may I suggest they start a suitable thread?

The concern over quality of Harman Phoenix comes about due to the leaked images where the packaging for Phoenix film has been revealed. This packaging states that it is a "limited edition" and Harman's "first step" in colour film....with sales of Phoenix going towards investing to "refine and improve formulations, coating capabilities and colour technology".

From this, we can conclude that this film may not be on a par with Kodak or Fuji in terms of quality of images it is capable of producing.

 

[koraks]

The concern over quality of Harman Phoenix comes about due to the leaked images

I'm also going by a few things relayed to me that come from the datasheet of the product. It's very clear to me that this is not a film that's meant to compete head on with C41 color film intended for general still photography. At least not in terms of objective quality. I'm sure many people will love it for its quirks. Heck, maybe I even will - I'll gladly give it a spin.

 

[Agulliver]

It's the same company.

Indeed it is. And it seems likely that they'll concentrate on 135 for a while, get that closer to perfection before trying other formats. As we've been told before, it's not simply a case of cutting the same master roll a different size.

Ultimately it would be great to see Harman colour film in multiple formats including sheet sizes....but they need to walk before they can run,.

 

[Agulliver]

I'm also going by a few things relayed to me that come from the datasheet of the product. It's very clear to me that this is not a film that's meant to compete head on with C41 color film intended for general still photography. At least not in terms of objective quality. I'm sure many people will love it for its quirks. Heck, maybe I even will - I'll gladly give it a spin.

Intriguing....

I'll try and buy some and will experiment with it if I am able to obtain any. But if not, I shall rest assured that the reason I can't get any is because it all sold and that others will soon enough get to try it out.

 

[mshchem]

Think of Phoenix as a fine wine. Every batch a distinct varietal, aged in your cellar until it's time.