Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

brbo said:
This film is produced in Europe. How do you expect it to appear in North America without international shipping?! Do you think the rest of the world somehow gets Kodak film without shipping costs?

There was a thread about cheap colour film. See how many of Europeans complained about shipping costs (shipping for film from OP was about 3x as expensive as from Fotoimpex to USA).

It is much cheaper in the long run to buy any product that is shipped in bulk to a distributor. Of course, I know it has to get here somehow. Are you just looking to create animosity?
Let's be practical. It is much more expensive & time consuming, not to mention inconvenient, for me as an end user to order film directly from Europe. I can buy Kodak or Ilford at the best price from B&H in New York and have it in four days ('free' shipping included in the price)....or if my film fridge is empty (not much chance of that) & i am in a hurry, to get in my car and drive 200km return to Calgary and buy it. So Adox film is a non-starter for me personally. Adox 100 is a good film, but not some kind of holy grail. The available Kodak & Ilford films cover all my needs in all formats....especially 120 which i use the most.

koraks · Sep 6, 2023

@brbo @GregY just a kind reminder that having different views is certainly OK, but let's keep it friendly. Thanks.

brbo · Sep 6, 2023

@koraks, noted!

I can now see how my comments were “unproductive”. I just wanted one Adox thread not to turn into bitching about shipping costs and availability, but I now see I actually contributed to it…

@GregY, I overreacted and I apologize.

retina_restoration · Sep 6, 2023

GregY said:
Like i said originally......not available in N America. As a photographer working in BW I'm not going to add international shipping to the already high cost of film. For those in Europe...good that you have it...it's fine film....(for as long as it remains available)

CHS 100 II is often available from Freestyle and I buy it from them at least once a year. CHS 100 (the original) is no longer made, so there's no point in discussing that film. Let's not conflate the two films.

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

retina_restoration said:
CHS 100 II is often available from Freestyle and I buy it from them at least once a year. CHS 100 (the original) is no longer made, so there's no point in discussing that film. Let's not conflate the two films.

It was not my intention to 'conflate' the films. It just underlines my point that unfortunately Adox films, as good as they are, are not generally available. As you mentioned Freestyle....it is currently out of stock, as it is at B&H.
Last year I was in Europe for August & September...in Italy, Switzerland and France. Although I had a reasonable amount of film, I used a lot. When I was in Paris I went to several well-known photo & camera shops. Kodak and Ilford were on shelves.... Adox was not.
I feel the OP Albireo's pain. Adox has some good products, but if they're not easily available they're not regularly viable films for some of us. So I'm simply stating that is the situation for me.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 6, 2023

All I know is that I really enjoy using CMS 20 II, as well as CHS 100 II, both in 4x5. As far as their chemistry goes, I've never use any other than Adotech IV.

Andrew O'Neill · Sep 6, 2023

...and CMS 20 is the closest I'll ever get to Efke 25. I loved that film!

retina_restoration · Sep 6, 2023

GregY said:
It was not my intention to 'conflate' the films. It just underlines my point that unfortunately Adox films, as good as they are, are not generally available. As you mentioned Freestyle....it is currently out of stock, as it is at B&H.
Last year I was in Europe for August & September...in Italy, Switzerland and France. Although I had a reasonable amount of film, I used a lot. When I was in Paris I went to several well-known photo & camera shops. Kodak and Ilford were on shelves.... Adox was not.
I feel the OP Albireo's pain. Adox has some good products, but if they're not easily available they're not regularly viable films for some of us. So I'm simply stating that is the situation for me.

Well, it's a good thing you weren't hooked on Bergger's Pancro 400!

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

retina_restoration said:
Well, it's a good thing you weren't hooked on Bergger's Pancro 400!

Well I did use a lot of Bergger 200 when i was shooting 4x10".... but TMY2 works just fine for me esp in 120

Pioneer · Sep 6, 2023

GregY said:
Adox film is hardly worth talking about in North America. We haven't seen Silvermax or CHS 100 in i don't know how long.

Adox has updated the film but you are right, it is definitely a challenge to find it here in the US. Adox will have to be able to keep things stocked here in the US.

I would like to try some but I can't find it here in 35mm. I haven't searched exhaustively but Adox CHS 100 ii in 35mm is pretty hard to find. Not even Amazon has it and they seem to sell everything. Sheet films are available but I would imagine that sheet film isn't in heavy demand.

However CMS 20 ii Pro seems pretty widely available but again, I doubt a lot of people are using a film that slow, particularly one that is advertised as needing a special developer to actually get that ISO 20 rating.

It is available out of Europe at fotoimpex.com. Shipping is pretty slow and expensive but if I do decide to go ahead with this film I may have to go that route. The price from Europe will likely keep me from trying it in 35mm until I can get it here. But, since I do shoot a fair amount of sheet film I'll try a bit and see how it works out.

Sal Santamaura · Sep 6, 2023

Pioneer said:
...It is available out of Europe at fotoimpex.com. Shipping is pretty slow and expensive...

Costly but now distinctly not slow. When ADOX products are in stock at Freestyle, the prices are sufficiently higher than FOTOIMPEX's that, if one is seeking enough film which isn't too heavy, things balance out.

Pioneer · Sep 6, 2023

Sal Santamaura said:
Costly but now distinctly not slow. When ADOX products are in stock at Freestyle, the prices are sufficiently higher than FOTOIMPEX's that, if one is seeking enough film which isn't too heavy, things balance out.

Thanks Sal. If the 6x9 sheet film works out well I may be ordering more so I'll do the calculations when that happens. Right now I'm in try-out mode so am not going to make a large order.

Dustin McAmera · Sep 6, 2023

I just ordered a few rolls of 35mm CHS100ii. Since Brexit (#littlebitofpolitics) I have to order at least 170 Euros' worth of stuff at a time. If I ordered that much as film, I would use it, slowly, but I confess it's off-putting: maybe wouldn't be if I could get a new job. Also because of Brexit, Fotoimpex can't charge me the VAT; but I will have to go to the depot and pay import duty on the stuff before I can have it (and I don't know in advance exactly how much that will be). Anyhow I think it could be as soon as tomorrow, from the DHL tracking.

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

Pioneer said:
Adox has updated the film but you are right, it is definitely a challenge to find it here in the US. Adox will have to be able to keep things stocked here in the US.

I would like to try some but I can't find it here in 35mm. I haven't searched exhaustively but Adox CHS 100 ii in 35mm is pretty hard to find. Not even Amazon has it and they seem to sell everything. Sheet films are available but I would imagine that sheet film isn't in heavy demand.

However CMS 20 ii Pro seems pretty widely available but again, I doubt a lot of people are using a film that slow, particularly one that is advertised as needing a special developer to actually get that ISO 20 rating.

It is available out of Europe at fotoimpex.com. Shipping is pretty slow and expensive but if I do decide to go ahead with this film I may have to go that route. The price from Europe will likely keep me from trying it in 35mm until I can get it here. But, since I do shoot a fair amount of sheet film I'll try a bit and see how it works out.

If their website is up-to-date looks like Argentix has 9 rolls of 35mm/100....

https://www.argentix.ca/Adoxbrand.php?=SID&mqry=sp05.3

Pioneer · Sep 6, 2023

GregY said:
If their website is up-to-date looks like Argentix has 9 rolls of 35mm/100....

https://www.argentix.ca/Adoxbrand.php?=SID&mqry=sp05.3

Not sure. They state "non-disponable" which understand to mean "not available" but my French is always very questionable.

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

Pioneer said:
Not sure. They state "non-disponable" which understand to mean "not available" but my French is always very questionable.

Might be worth a phone call or email to verify.... if you're interested.

Dustin McAmera · Sep 6, 2023

Bergger say 'Rupture de stock', which sounds quite nasty.

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
Bergger say 'Rupture de stock', which sounds quite nasty.

out of stock....

Dustin McAmera · Sep 6, 2023

I guessed what it meant, but it still conjures images of an agricultural disaster.

MattKing · Sep 6, 2023

Pioneer said:
Not sure. They state "non-disponable" which understand to mean "not available" but my French is always very questionable.

This is what I see on Argentix' website:

GregY · Sep 6, 2023

Dustin McAmera said:
I guessed what it meant, but it still conjures images of an agricultural disaster.

bluechromis · Sep 6, 2023

I think Adox deserves credit for bringing out HR-50. We know that it is based on the same Aviphot stock used in Rollei Retro 80 S. The Agfa aerial stocks have the best IR sensitivity of existing stocks. However, because they were not designed for pictorial use, they are tricky and tend to be overcontrasty. In my opinion, Adox's Speed Boost treatment does help to tame the contrast of aerial film. I don't know of other film manufacturers that have gone to the trouble of such a process. HR-50 is better than Retro 80-S in almost every way except that it is only 35 mm. For non-IR photos, HR-50 has a remarkably fine grain, as far as I know, only bested by document films. I don't do reversal processing, but HR-50 is said to work well for that. This is also an opportune moment to contrast how much integrity Adox has compared to MACO. You might say that doesn't take much, but still, I don't take it for granted how much better Adox treats its customers. One could knock Adox by saying they don't coat HR-50, so they don't really make it. Okay, but they modify it to it a more usable product.

In the bigger picture, Adox has also generally been a leader in bringing higher resolution to 35 mm emulsions where it is most needed. These films may not suit everyone's tastes, and some may say it is better to use larger formats. The reality is that the majority of film shooters use 35 mm, and most may never move up to larger formats. It is good that they have the high rez options from Adox.

markjwyatt · Sep 7, 2023

I do like ADOX CHS 100 II, and have ben shooting it for a few years now. When they have it at Freestyle, I buy several rolls. I really liked Silvermax also, but alas, it is gone forever (I do have some expired Agfapan APX 100 in 120, and this is what understand it is based on). I also like ADOX chemistry. So far that is ADOX Rodinal and ADOX FX-39 II, both of which I have used with CHS 100 II, and other films. I would like to try XT-3 and their new D-76. D-76 used to be all I used decades ago.

I hope ADOX will be able to produce in 120 some day. Wasn't CHS 100 based on a 1960s ADOX formulation?

Ilford FP4+ and HP5+ are also great standbys, and if that is all I had, I would be happy (I do like some variety though). I like CHS 100 II a bit more than FP4+, because I feel like it has tamer contrast, at least for how I develop both (FP4+ in Rodinal or HC110 vs. CHS 100 II mainly in FX-39 II). I do like Bergger Panchro also for some shots, but am running out. I have played around with Fomapan (100, 200, 400), and have some more to shoot. Add Kodak plus Ilford Delta line and some other interesting brands (like ORWO, Ferrenia, Kentmere, etc.), and we actually have some options for B&W film these days.

bluechromis · Sep 7, 2023

bluechromis said:
I think Adox deserves credit for bringing out HR-50. We know that it is based on the same Aviphot stock used in Rollei Retro 80 S. The Agfa aerial stocks have the best IR sensitivity of existing stocks. However, because they were not designed for pictorial use, they are tricky and tend to be overcontrasty. In my opinion, Adox's Speed Boost treatment does help to tame the contrast of aerial film. I don't know of other film manufacturers that have gone to the trouble of such a process. HR-50 is better than Retro 80-S in almost every way except that it is only 35 mm. For non-IR photos, HR-50 has a remarkably fine grain, as far as I know, only bested by document films. I don't do reversal processing, but HR-50 is said to work well for that. This is also an opportune moment to contrast how much integrity Adox has compared to MACO. You might say that doesn't take much, but still, I don't take it for granted how much better Adox treats its customers. One could knock Adox by saying they don't coat HR-50, so they don't really make it. Okay, but they modify it to it a more usable product.

In the bigger picture, Adox has also generally been a leader in bringing higher resolution to 35 mm emulsions where it is most needed. These films may not suit everyone's tastes, and some may say it is better to use larger formats. The reality is that the majority of film shooters use 35 mm, and most may never move up to larger formats. It is good that they have the high rez options from Adox.

Of course, Adox HR-50 is the same as Scala 50. At Freestyle and B & H, they seem to only list it as Scala 50.

Pioneer · Sep 7, 2023

Thanks for the help everyone. I now have 9 rolls of CHS 100 II film on the way.

GregY should contact Argentix and get his sales commission.

Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

GregY

koraks

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brbo

retina_restoration

GregY

Andrew O'Neill

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Andrew O'Neill

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retina_restoration

GregY

Pioneer

Sal Santamaura

Pioneer

Dustin McAmera

GregY

Pioneer

GregY

Dustin McAmera

GregY

Dustin McAmera

MattKing

Moderator

GregY

bluechromis

markjwyatt

bluechromis

Pioneer

Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

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