Thoughts on Adox' film offer (as opposed to their chemistry offer)

[bluechromis]

I am glad that CHS 100 II is similar to Silvermax, which I greatly miss. Adox says of CHS 100, "The film is made from two separate emulsions in a single layer coating and yields a very large exposure latitude." My understanding is that modern BW films tend to have multiple layers of different sensitivity that accommodate varying lighting conditions. In my ignorance, I thought that a single emulation layer was a drawback, maybe like some very old-school films. But if CHS 100 has wide latitude maybe that implies it performs like modern films.

 

[JPD]

I am glad that CHS 100 II is similar to Silvermax, which I greatly miss. Adox says of CHS 100, "The film is made from two separate emulsions in a single layer coating and yields a very large exposure latitude." My understanding is that modern BW films tend to have multiple layers of different sensitivity that accommodate varying lighting conditions. In my ignorance, I thought that a single emulation layer was a drawback, maybe like some very old-school films. But if CHS 100 has wide latitude maybe that implies it performs like modern films.

It's similar to Efke 100 in that regard. I remember when I took two rolls of film to test the developing times, Efke 100 and Agfa APX 100 (the real one), and it was easy to tell the one stop over- and underexposured APX 100 apart from the normal, while the Efke 100 negs had a much smoother transition from neg to neg. Especially it took overexposre very well. Very good film for box cameras with no or limited settings.

 

[markjwyatt]

...Agfa APX 100 (the real one)...

I usually just say "Agfapan APX 100" for the real one (I have a few rolls of expired 120) vs the "fake" one is Agfaphoto APX 100.

 

[grain elevator]

It's similar to Efke 100 in that regard. I remember when I took two rolls of film to test the developing times, Efke 100 and Agfa APX 100 (the real one), and it was easy to tell the one stop over- and underexposured APX 100 apart from the normal, while the Efke 100 negs had a much smoother transition from neg to neg. Especially it took overexposre very well. Very good film for box cameras with no or limited settings.

How does that work? How can a film deliver gradation/contrast within a neg, but not between negatives that are exposed differently?

 

[JPD]

How does that work? How can a film deliver gradation/contrast within a neg, but not between negatives that are exposed differently?

They do, but the difference is smaller if the film has greater exposure latitude. I'm no expert, but it should depend a lot on if a film has a mix of emulsions of different speeds and in what proportions.

 

[chuckroast]

Wasn't CHS 100 based on a 1960s ADOX formulation?

My understanding is that CHS 100 was a rebranding of Efke film (which was a spectacular film and I still mourn its loss).


CHS 100 II is allegedly an attempt to replicate that great Efke perfromance into a more modern emulsion. So far, I am unconvinced, but still working on it..

 

[Pioneer]

My understanding is that CHS 100 was a rebranding of Efke film (which was a spectacular film and I still mourn its loss).


CHS 100 II is allegedly an attempt to replicate that great Efke perfromance into a more modern emulsion. So far, I am unconvinced, but still working on it..\

I think that there are many, many, many of us who still mourn the passing of Efke. Even with equipment and plant failing all around them they still produced amazing film stocks.

Forget modernizing; You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to recreate their film emulsions with today's technology. It still baffles me as to why we are unable to produce those films.

 

[Ivo Stunga]

A new regulation here, a new classification as toxic material there, economic feasibility and lost knowledge?

 

[chuckroast]

I think that there are many, many, many of us who still mourn the passing of Efke. Even with equipment and plant failing all around them they still produced amazing film stocks.

Forget modernizing; You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to recreate their film emulsions with today's technology. It still baffles me as to why we are unable to produce those films.

I bought everything I could get my mits on in 120, 2x3 sheets, and 4x5 sheets. I was late to discovering just how amazing this stuff was. I should have bough 10x as much.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

My understanding is that CHS 100 was a rebranding of Efke film (which was a spectacular film and I still mourn its loss).


CHS 100 II is allegedly an attempt to replicate that great Efke perfromance into a more modern emulsion. So far, I am unconvinced, but still working on it..\

Their spectral sensitivities are quite similar, but with subtle differences, if you are referring to KB 100. Efke KB 100 had a bit more sensitivity to red than CHS, out to about 680nm, whereas CHS stops at about 660. Efke's dip in sensitivity in the yellows is probably what made red/green separation slightly better. Their characteristic curves are more similar, though, same with grain. I wish I had some KB 100 still. I do have some KB 50 sheet film, but it's closer to FP4.

 

[chuckroast]

Their spectral sensitivities are quite similar, but with subtle differences, if you are referring to KB 100. Efke KB 100 had a bit more sensitivity to red than CHS, out to about 680nm, whereas CHS stops at about 660. Efke's dip in sensitivity in the yellows is probably what made red/green separation slightly better. Their characteristic curves are more similar, though, same with grain. I wish I had some KB 100 still. I do have some KB 50 sheet film, but it's closer to FP4.

Most of what I've shot is PL100M in 2x3 and it's just stupid sharp. It responds well to EMA or Semistand processing in dilute Pyrocat. Example:

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Most of what I've shot is PL100M in 2x3 and it's just stupid sharp. It responds well to EMA or Semistand processing in dilute Pyrocat. Example:

View attachment 348686

Yup! I used to semi-stand it in very dilute Pyrocat-HD, and still do with PL 25.

 

[JPD]

Their spectral sensitivities are quite similar, but with subtle differences, if you are referring to KB 100. Efke KB 100 had a bit more sensitivity to red than CHS, out to about 680nm, whereas CHS stops at about 660. Efke's dip in sensitivity in the yellows is probably what made red/green separation slightly better. Their characteristic curves are more similar, though, same with grain. I wish I had some KB 100 still. I do have some KB 50 sheet film, but it's closer to FP4.

I don't want to sound like a besserwisser, but:

KB = Kleinbild (small format, 35mm)
R = Rollfilm (127, 120...)
PL = Planfilm (sheet film)

 

[chuckroast]

I don't want to sound like a besserwisser, but:

KB = Kleinbild (small format, 35mm)
R = Rollfilm (127, 120...)
PL = Planfilm (sheet film)

That's interesting, but why would a Croatian company resort to a German naming scheme, I wonder, or am I assuming Germanic naming when it's really not ...

 

[JPD]

That's interesting, but why would a Croatian company resort to a German naming scheme, I wonder, or am I assuming Germanic naming when it's really not ...

They continued using the old Adox names for the films.

 

[Pioneer]

I bought everything I could get my mits on in 120, 2x3 sheets, and 4x5 sheets. I was late to discovering just how amazing this stuff was. I should have bough 10x as much.

I agree. I still have a small stock of 35mm, 120 and 4x5 left in the freezer but it is slowly running out. I had hoped at the time that by this time someone would have come out with a replacement. Doesn't look as if it is going to happen. If Adox can't pull it off I don't know anyone who can.

 

[koraks]

why would a Croatian company resort to a German naming scheme

Because German was at one point the 'lingua franca' in European engineering, and even today lingers as a language spoken (at least a little) as a secondary language in many countries in the eastern half of Europe, the Balkans etc. Basically, if you travelled Europe up to around 1990, you were better off with a good command of German than of English.

 

[Anon Ymous]

@chuckroast @koraks IIRC, Efke bought the Adox line many decades ago and kept their naming.

 

[miha]

German was at one point the 'lingua franca' in European engineering

+1

And since I presume you speak German, I can say that Lichtstärke sounds much more familiar to me than lens speed.

 

[koraks]

Yes, 'lens speed' is an awkward term, unless applied to a lens that's hurled into a corner out of frustration.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

 

[JPD]

DuPont had the rights to the formulae and Fotokemika made the films under license. They kept the names KB14, KB17 and KB21 (R14 and so on for Rollfilm and PL for the sheet film). In the 90s they changed the names to KB20, KB40 and KB100, and then later to KB25, KB50 and KB100. The first names with 14, 17 and 21 were the speeds in DIN.

The jump from ASA 20 and 40 to 25 and 50 didn't mean a change in the emulsion. According to the papers the 20, 40 and 100 speeds were for Tungsten lighting, the the speeds in daylight were the double.

 

[chuckroast]

DuPont had the rights to the formulae and Fotokemika made the films under license. They kept the names KB14, KB17 and KB21 (R14 and so on for Rollfilm and PL for the sheet film). In the 90s they changed the names to KB20, KB40 and KB100, and then later to KB25, KB50 and KB100. The first names with 14, 17 and 21 were the speeds in DIN.

The jump from ASA 20 and 40 to 25 and 50 didn't mean a change in the emulsion. According to the papers the 20, 40 and 100 speeds were for Tungsten lighting, the the speeds in daylight were the double.

And was I surprised to figure that out when I first tried PL100M. Most every film I've ever tested on a densitometer, shows an actual usable EI of about 1/2 box ASA speed (except when processed with standing techniques, which is a whole other discussion).

I was therefore interested to measure the PL100M at a usable EI of 100 ... only to discover that it's daylight speed was - as you say - actually rated at ASA 200.


I sooooo will miss this film when I run out of it.

 

[bluechromis]

I think that there are many, many, many of us who still mourn the passing of Efke. Even with equipment and plant failing all around them they still produced amazing film stocks.

Forget modernizing; You wouldn't think it would be that difficult to recreate their film emulsions with today's technology. It still baffles me as to why we are unable to produce those films.

Sometimes old films cannot be resurrected because the materials are unavailable or prohibited. Panatomic X & cadmium. Adox said that Silvermax used a legacy sensitizer from Agfa that was too expensive to get from new sources. I remember Mirko saying that a film using the same ingredients with a different coating machine is a different film. The coating machine makes that much difference.

 

[bluechromis]

I think the most important thing I would like is for Adox to stay in business. I think that they are doing a great job with the slow speed films that they produce now. Those are the ones I'm regularly buying from them, along with some of their chemicals, so I hope they keep that up. I also suspect that those films are likely the ones that are contributing to their profit stream. Higher speed black and white films seem pretty well represented around the world by Kodak, Ilford and Foma, that is not necessarily true of the low speed films they specialize in. I think that they need to be really careful about putting a ton of their money into something that puts them in direct competition with those manufacturers. I tried Silvermax and liked it, but it didn't stop me from buying Kodak TMX 100. Even Fuji, which arguably had the premier range of color reversal films, has reduced their product lines to films that contribute to the bottom line.

Don't get me wrong, I like Adox. I think they are pretty well run and seem to be pretty savvy with their marketing. One of the areas where they seem to be trying to expand is in their color film offerings. As a black and white film aficionado you may not care about that side of the business but I suspect that is a part of the market where there is room to expand in Europe...and the United States. I know their first coating was done by another company that went out of business and they are looking at doing it all on their own. I wish them luck on this venture and hope it works out.

And when they get successful with their color film, and I suspect they will, I hope they don't forget us little black and white photographers who helped give them a start.

I remember Mirko saying that if you want to support a photo manufacturer, buy paper from them. Paper sales are what keep the factory doors open. I hope Adox will be able to ramp up its paper offerings.